# Secular Islamic Countries **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 19, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654 "2007-06-19T23:53:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/21 "2007-06-20T18:16:51Z")
I’ve spent some time in Malaysia and found it to be a very comfortable country. One or two of the northern peninsular states, such as Kelantan, have been taken over politically by a rather extremist Muslim party, but they’re exceptions; and even so, you can spend some very relaxing days out on the Perhentian Islands off of Kuala Besut. Indonesia is a quite a decent place with some wonderful people. And it has Bali, which is a Hindu enclave. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/22 "2007-06-20T18:18:21Z")
A note on Turkey’s secularism: My impression from reading articles on religious freedom in Turkey is that Turkish Sunni Islam is seen as part of Turkish ethnical identity (i.e. if you convert to Orthodox Christianity you don’t become an Orthodox Turk but a Turkish Greek), so the secularist political/military establishment resents other religons’ asserting themselves not as religous heterodoxy but as ethnical separatism (a Bad Thing). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/23 "2007-06-20T18:22:08Z")
[QUOTE=madmonk28] I live in Indonesia and secularism varies greatly by region. On Java, for example, the atmosphere is very relaxed, but here in Aceh, there are Sharia police patroling the streets and beaches and monitoring people’s behaviour. [/QUOTE] Aceh has a separatist movement, doesn’t it? Tensions have been high there for a long time, I hear. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/24 "2007-06-20T18:59:07Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] Aceh has a separatist movement, doesn’t it? Tensions have been high there for a long time, I hear. [/QUOTE] Yes and one of the Aceh separtists long-running complaints ( a more minor one ) is that the Indonesian state is insufficiently Islamic. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/25 "2007-06-20T20:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth] …\*Exceptions seemed to be for airline stewardesses (no male flight attendants), teaching girls, and some medical staff. [/QUOTE] Were the stewardsesses actually Saudi women? I read somewhere that Saudi airlines employ women from Southeast Asia as stewardess instead of hiring Saudi women. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/26 "2007-06-20T20:46:42Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Were the stewardsesses actually Saudi women? I read somewhere that Saudi airlines employ women from Southeast Asia as stewardess instead of hiring Saudi women. That was true at least recently, according to [this history of Saudi Arabian Airlines](http://www.answers.com/topic/saudi-arabian-airlines?cat=biz-fin): > [@](#): > > Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia) is the national airline of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the largest airline in the Middle East. […] > > As Saudia depended on other countries for labor, in the 1990s it intensified its training program to ensure a supply of Saudi workers and pilots. At the time, all of the female flight attendants were foreigners; the other half of the cabin crew were all Saudi, as were three-quarters of the technical staff. They’re [currently seeking to hire](http://www.saudiairlines.com/aboutus/female_flight_attendants.jsp) some non-Saudi women as flight attendants: > [@](#): > > SAUDI ARABIAN AIRLINES (SAUDIA), the largest Airline in the Middle East, > seeks for FEMALE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS for (nationals from following countries: > (Philippines, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Sir Lanka, Indonesia, Turkey, Syria) > to move around the world for it’s Domestic & International operation > BASED IN JEDDAH. > > Application Screening Requirement: > All Data must be substantiated with support documents at the time of interview. > > Qualifications: > > 1. Minimum High school Graduates. > 2. Height (Min160 cm), (Max 176 cm) with proportionate weight. > 3. Age (Min22) , (Max 30). > 4. Advance English, Speak, Read & Write. My WAG is that Saudi legal restrictions on women being able to work, travel, get passports, etc., without accompaniment by a male family member, would make it a real bureaucratic PITA to hire Saudi women as flight attendants, esp. on international flights. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654/27 "2007-06-20T20:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Were the stewardsesses actually Saudi women? I read somewhere that Saudi airlines employ women from Southeast Asia as stewardess instead of hiring Saudi women. [/QUOTE] Some were obviously Malaysian or Indonesian, others I couldn’t tell where they were from. I got sort of paranoid about chatting up women in the country, so I didn’t ask where anyone was from. It may have been indicated on there name tags, but I honestly don’t recall. I avoided flying Saudi Air on international flights, so I only flew them a couple of times, between Jeddah and Dhammam. Nice aircraft, but no booze. Saudi is the one place I really felt I needed a drink as soon as possible on leaving, so I didn’t want to wait until back on the ground in Europe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secular-islamic-countries/408654.md?page=1)