# Secularism gaining ground in the US ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923 "2009-03-10T05:22:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/61 "2009-03-10T23:39:17Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Then make the participation voluntary for the college applications, or do it on the SATs, again voluntary. > > How an you get a meaningful result with that random a sample? Did they ask at least 1,000 per state? If so, what areas? Slums? A Church camp? A University? [Read and be enlightened.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error). > [@](#): > > I think that statistics, when it comes to a poll, is never done properly. > The questions HAVE to be basic. Like, “Do you believe in a higher power.” Not, “Do you believe in God.” A person’s definition of “god” can be a lot-- christian, loving god, hateful god, Ra, Vishnu, etc. Last year, a poll was given to less than five thousand > with the same believe in god question. (Mentioned on this board if I’m not mistaken) There were five answers to check. Yes absolutely, yes maybe, yes it’s possible, no I don’t, and choose not to answer. > So, that leaves 3 yeses, 1 no, and 1 N/A. Is that biased? Yep. No they don’t have to be basic, but they do have to be chosen not to bias the result. Maybe you’ve seen too many of those fake polls that ask questions like “do you believe we should go into space for a wonderful future for mankind” or “do you support socialists taking over our government?” From the article, the poll in question was a lot more honest, and it seemed to drill down into the details of which god people believed in - there was a category for Wiccans, for example. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Beginning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@New\_Beginning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Beginning)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/62 "2009-03-11T00:00:39Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > As nice as that sounds, I don’t think it necessarily follows. It’s possible that everybody might merely convert from intolerant theists to tolerant theists, without making the theological leap to atheism. True, but the discussion is about secularism gaining ground, not atheism. And I believe that tolerant theists are just a step away from secularists, even if they don’t know it. Once it becomes clear that it’s ok to be have any belief system, it’s a pretty quick path to realizing that the details of any given religion are pretty arbitrary. If not for the tolerant theists, then for their children. ---
**Author:** ![Bluffcityguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bluffcityguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bluffcityguy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/63 "2009-03-11T09:32:48Z")
> [@New\_Beginning](#): > > True, but the discussion is about secularism gaining ground, not atheism. And I believe that tolerant theists are just a step away from secularists, even if they don’t know it. Once it becomes clear that it’s ok to be have any belief system, it’s a pretty quick path to realizing that the details of any given religion are pretty arbitrary. If not for the tolerant theists, then for their children. We can but hope. However, the problem with your prediction is that, IIRC, since the Enlightenment there’s always been one or two radical unbelievers predicting the end of religion in his/her/their lifetime(s), and yet the phenomenon endures. Forgive us old geezers for getting a bit cynical as we age. 😃 Cheers, bcg ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/64 "2009-03-11T10:34:50Z")
“Secularism” was coined by James Holyoake in 1846: > [@](#): > > Secularism is a code of duty pertaining to this life, founded on considerations purely human, and intended mainly for those who find theology indefinite or inadequate, unreliable or unbelievable. Its essential principles are three: (1) The improvement of this life by material means. (2) That science is the available Providence of man. (3) That it is good to do good. Whether there be other good or not, the good of the present life is good, and it is good to seek that good. “Secularity” is the general term for the state of being separate from religion. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > This word derives from a Latin word meaning “of the age”. The Christian doctrine that God exists outside time led medieval Western culture to use secular to indicate separation from religious affairs and involvement in worldly (or time-related) ones. This meaning has been extended to apply to separation from any religion, regardless of whether it has a similar doctrine. **mswas** is mistaken in equating all secularity with state secularity. Our government is secular, but our culture is not, and neither is at all secularist. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Beginning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@New\_Beginning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Beginning)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/65 "2009-03-11T15:27:24Z")
> [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > We can but hope. > > However, the problem with your prediction is that, IIRC, since the Enlightenment there’s always been one or two radical unbelievers predicting the end of religion in his/her/their lifetime(s), and yet the phenomenon endures. Ahh, but they didn’t have the internet! 🙂 > [@Bluffcityguy](#): > > Forgive us old geezers for getting a bit cynical as we age. 😃 I absolve you. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/66 "2009-03-11T15:38:08Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > “Secularism” was coined by James Holyoake in 1846: > “Secularity” is the general term for the state of being separate from religion. From Wikipedia: > **mswas** is mistaken in equating all secularity with state secularity. Our government is secular, but our culture is not, and neither is at all secularist. Again: Fair Enough ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/67 "2009-03-11T17:08:34Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > **mswas** is mistaken in equating all secularity with state secularity. Our government is secular, but our culture is not, and neither is at all secularist. In much of Europe, it appears, the situation is reversed - the culture is mostly secular, but the government is not, officially. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/68 "2009-03-11T19:40:29Z")
There is a significant difference in saying you are a member of religion x and bothering to show up for church. [Most Americans don’t go to church (or whatever) on a weekly basis.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Church_attendance) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923/69 "2009-03-11T20:27:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In much of Europe, it appears, the situation is reversed - the culture is mostly secular, but the government is not, officially. Yup. In college I remember looking at surveys that suggested church attendance tends to be lower in nations with official religions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/secularism-gaining-ground-in-the-us/488923.md?page=3)