# Security beats man at Whole Foods over EBT card **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 6, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141 "2015-09-06T02:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/61 "2015-09-06T15:37:05Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > And this might be a lesson to you **aceplace57** to not post WEIRD SHIT THAT YOU FIND ON THE INTERWEBS before discovering a bit of background and determining the veracity of the shit you find. That would cut out about 97% of his posting. All **acey** does is post clickbait news stories to events that either haven’t been proven or have very little facts. He gets all outraged over what he thinks happened (even with no facts to back it up), he digs his heels in the ground and doesn’t listen to a thing anyone says, and then when finally the actual facts in the case come out and show him to be completely wrong, he’s all “golly gee shucks that is a bad thing” but never acknowledges that he was wrong. Then he does the same thing a few days later. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/62 "2015-09-06T15:55:59Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > That would cut out about 97% of his posting. > > All **acey** does is post clickbait news stories to events that either haven’t been proven or have very little facts. He gets all outraged over what he thinks happened (even with no facts to back it up), he digs his heels in the ground and doesn’t listen to a thing anyone says, and then when finally the actual facts in the case come out and show him to be completely wrong, he’s all “golly gee shucks that is a bad thing” but never acknowledges that he was wrong. > > Then he does the same thing a few days later. QFT. And in other news, the sun came up this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/63 "2015-09-06T16:53:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I would hardly categorize the beating of a black man Weird Shit. :mad: I think he’s talking about things more along the lines of: Body of woman, 25, stolen from casket in broad daylight in Texas UK woman demands refund for daughter’s cake. See OP for the reason. Audacity is more than software Kids solved this puzzle in seconds. Can you figure it out? Things you Didn’t Know about Doritos. Designer Vaginas - why is this there any consumer interest or demand? Women reach Kurdish controlled territory and rip off their abayas. Waffle House Employee filmed masturbating in booth. 6 Things You Learn Getting Paid To Troll People Online New neighbor from hell. How Taking a Photograph of Old Faithful This Summer Could Land You in Jail AFP News ridiculous spelling blunder. . And that’s just the threads you’ve started; I’m not going to search through all your posts and find out when you linked in random stuff in the middle of a thread. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/64 "2015-09-07T01:13:17Z")
This thread was created too discuss the beating of a man at Whole Foods. It’s yet another example of either police or private security using extreme violence. I invite anyone interested in the topic to participate. There’s been several similar threads on the board in the past few months. I’m not sure if there’s still any interest in this type of violence or not, but I thought it was worth informing people. There’s still no word on the victim’s condition. Hopefully no news is good news. That it’s not too serious. But that’s still to be determined. The Sf weekly article has a few updates. Not much is happening over the holiday weekend. The security guard has been suspended. Perhaps there will be updates Tues or Wed after people get back to work. Sf weekly quoted Whole Foods’ official statement (from their Facebook page) [http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/09/04/violent-altercation-at-oakland-whole-foods-witness-says-black-customer-bloodied-after-attempting-to-buy-groceries-with-his-ebt-card](http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/09/04/violent-altercation-at-oakland-whole-foods-witness-says-black-customer-bloodied-after-attempting-to-buy-groceries-with-his-ebt-card) > [@](#): > > Last night at our Oakland store, there was an altercation that escalated to violence. The graphic images circulating on Facebook and Twitter are disturbing to say the least. Whole Foods Market considers the safety and security of all team members, customers and members of our community a top priority. The security guard involved in the incident has been suspended, and we are actively investigating the details with our security firm. While we move swiftly to gather the facts, we want to make it clear that Whole Foods Market takes a zero tolerance approach to violence. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/65 "2015-09-07T01:25:57Z")
Does anyone have any specific information on the powers of Security Guards in California? I would assume they are limited compared to police. I haven’t found anything specific about what security guards can and can’t do, specifically in California. I know in general they can detain people for arrest by police. Shoplifters would be one example. Realistically, they have to use some force to effectively protect the property and interests of their employer. But how much force? When are they required to back off and wait for police? What kind of liability do they have compared to police? Their presence is growing. I see the marked Walmart security cars buzzing around their parking lot every time I shop. Cameras are everywhere in the parking lot, stores, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/66 "2015-09-07T01:26:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There’s still no word on the victim’s condition. Hopefully no news is good news. That it’s not too serious. But that’s still to be determined. I found this article, with the update, this morning. [http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/09/04/whole-foods-responds-to-guards-reported-beating-of-shopper-at-oakland-store](http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/09/04/whole-foods-responds-to-guards-reported-beating-of-shopper-at-oakland-store) It should be noted that one of the guards called 911 so he wasn’t just left for dead. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/67 "2015-09-07T01:32:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This thread was created too discuss the beating of a man at Whole Foods. Well, you did introduce the EBT issue by using about 40% of the OP to discuss EBT as well as provide a link to a web page to show that Whole Foods takes food stamps. So, you can’t call that issue a hijack. > [@](#): > > There’s still no word on the victim’s condition. The video in the Daily News story that you linked to in the OP reported that the man was in stable condition. (This is the same video with the “suburban” woman that you commented on earlier.) > [@](#): > > The security guard has been suspended. The Daily News story that you linked to in the OP said that the security guard has been “permanently removed,” not suspended. **ace** , I’m not going to go so far as other who say you should stop posting these threads about sensational news events. But when you do, can I suggest that you pay closer attention to what you posted? I mean, you started a thread with a title, “Security beats man at Whole Foods over EBT card,” and a day later you’re sort of chiding people for responding that the title that you gave this thread is highly misleading if not outright incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/68 "2015-09-07T02:52:24Z")
Whole Foods says in their statement that the guard was suspended. The News says fired. \ Maybe the Whole Foods statement is already out of date? Hopefully we’ll see criminally charged in the news very soon. But that’s up to the cops and DA. Yes, I regret focusing too much on the EBT angle of the story. I didn’t realize it would derail the thread to such an extant. I made an assumption about the situation in the store based on my personal experiences. I’ve been in line several times when upset customers argued over EBT or WIC purchases with the cashier. But as people here so swiftly pointed out, there’s no absolute, complete, total proof that’s what happened in the Whole Foods case. The news just hasn’t reported yet exactly what the argument was over. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/69 "2015-09-07T02:59:49Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Whole Foods says in their statement that the guard was suspended. The News says fired. \ Maybe the Whole Foods statement is already out of date? Hopefully we’ll see criminally charged in the news very soon. But that’s up to the cops and DA. Actually, Whole Foods has gone beyond firing the guard. They’ve dumped their security firm and have hired a new one. sfbay.ca/2015/09/05/whole-foods-hiring-new-security-after-alleged-assault/ ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/70 "2015-09-07T03:11:00Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I found this article, with the update, this morning. > [http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/09/04/whole-foods-responds-to-guards-reported-beating-of-shopper-at-oakland-store](http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/09/04/whole-foods-responds-to-guards-reported-beating-of-shopper-at-oakland-store) > > It should be noted that one of the guards called 911 so he wasn’t just left for dead. Very good update. Thank you. Whole Food’s updated statement is quite interesting. I’m not entirely sure how security can do their job without \*some \*use of force. But I much rather see them use none then use too much. Caution is always better than over reacting. Something good might come out of this incident yet. > [@](#): > > While we don’t yet have the final results from the police investigation of this incident, we do have a ZERO TOLERANCE policy for violence. As a result of the violent behavior of the security guard at Whole Foods Market Oakland, we are replacing this security firm in the store. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/71 "2015-09-08T11:39:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Does anyone have any specific information on the powers of Security Guards in California? The power to cloud men’s minds is one that I’ve heard bandied about. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Something good might come out of this incident yet. I offer this post as just one such example. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/72 "2015-09-08T14:02:31Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … > **someone posted above that pulling out food stamps or EBT sometimes gets a snooty response from the cashier.** EBT rules create an atmosphere for disputes just like Food Stamps did. Cashiers have to follow the rules and deny purchases of non-eligible items. Anyone that uses an EBT knows they may get treated rudely or judged. They may have items denied. It’s all part of the realities of being poor. Naturally this gets people upset and disputes happen. It’s life. > > That’s what I meant in my OP. The guy tried to use an EBT. Somehow it caused a dispute. That dispute was witnessed by a very credible and concerned citizen, and the bloody aftermath photographed. > [@aceplace57](#): > > … > I’d bet nearly everybody reading this thread has been in line at least once when a cashier and a customer had a dispute over EBT or food stamps. I’ve witnessed it at least 6 or 7 times in the past thirty years. **Sometimes the cashier is a bit snooty and other times polite.** Some places won’t even take EBT. For whatever reason Rambo rent a cop decides to jump into what a witness claimed to be a mild dispute. > … You know, it’s considered bad form to cite yourself without disclosing it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/73 "2015-09-08T14:06:58Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Actually, Whole Foods has gone beyond firing the guard. They’ve dumped their security firm and have hired a new one. > > sfbay.ca/2015/09/05/whole-foods-hiring-new-security-after-alleged-assault/ That doesn’t prove what happened beyond the fact that Whole Foods doesn’t like having protestors in front of their store. Several articles have stated that the local police are investigating and presumably have the video. As far as I can tell there has been no arrest at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/74 "2015-09-08T15:19:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That doesn’t prove what happened beyond the fact that Whole Foods doesn’t like having protestors in front of their store. Several articles have stated that the local police are investigating and presumably have the video. As far as I can tell there has been no arrest at this point. Ah, that must be why aceplace hasn’t bothered to ask the mods to change the thread title yet. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/75 "2015-09-08T15:57:59Z")
**interceded when the customer made physical contact with a team member** Not that I think security guards have a right to beat shoppers, because they don’t, but this Whole Foods is a store that “have experienced violence that includes our team members being robbed at gunpoint or physically assaulted outside the store” according to the SF Chronicle. EBT card dispute is getting out of hand, customer grabs cashier, security guard goes way overboard in putting an end to it. The story is thin on details; but once you put your hands on someone, you started a physical altercation. Sympathy level for the one who started it isn’t very high. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/76 "2015-09-08T22:17:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Ah, that must be why aceplace hasn’t bothered to ask the mods to change the thread title yet. I’ve been waiting for the story to unfold. One witness has already established that the incident began over a EBT purchase. What still hasn’t been reported is what escalated the situation. What the victim said or did that set off the security guard. The best witness would be the cashier. But that’s a Whole Foods employee. I don’t expect any public statements. That person knows who signs their paychecks. 😛 I can’t recall a case with such a complete lack of details. No names reported at all. We wouldn’t even know this incident happened if one customer hadn’t stepped forward on social media. I’m beginning to suspect the entire mess will be privately settled and swept under the rug. Nothing else will get reported. But, there’s always a slim chance something will break in the next few days. If the security guard is arrested and charged won’t that create a public record for the case? Maybe then the reporters can use FOIA to get the details. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/77 "2015-09-08T23:20:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I can’t recall a case with such a complete lack of details. No names reported at all. We wouldn’t even know this incident happened if one customer hadn’t stepped forward on social media. Maybe its just not much of a story. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/78 "2015-09-09T01:00:26Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > …To be fair, you can’t buy any of those items with an EBT card… Actually only the diapers can’t be purchased with SNAP benefits; infant formula and are just about any cold food item meant for human consumption (you can also buy the seeds of food bearing plants). You can’t buy things like hot food\*, vitamins, or medicines. > [@carlotta](#): > > I have used an EBT card at Whole Foods a number of times and experienced exactly zero attitude, snottiness, judgment from cashiers. It also seems routine for them, something they are used to… I worked retail for years, and was almost completely indifferent to what people were buying unless it didn’t ring up right, or was flagged with some kind of restriction. That being said part of me did want to laugh when a really obnoxious customer threw a temper tantrum over having to spend their own money on an ineligible EBT or WIC item since those were one of the few situations when a manger couldn’t just swoop in and indulge them. And before anyone says anything I felt the exact same way when customers threw tantrums over their bank declining their credit/debit cards or checks. \*Granted this could get really arbitrary. Eg the rotisserie chickens under the warmer were not allowed, the same chickens marked down the next day and put in the deli cooler were allowed. Or when I worked at a convenience store if a customer got something like a Hot Pocket and wanted to pay w/ EBT they had to do if before putting in the microwave, if they microwaved in first I was required to throw it away and make them get another out of the cooler before ringing them up. :rolleyes: I’m so glad I’ve long since moved on from there. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/79 "2015-09-09T01:25:24Z")
Yes, you’re right about the formula, but I had to look it up. We don’t sell formula at my store so it’s never been an issue. I just saw diapers and formula…and my mind said ‘oh, those are WIC things’. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > \*Granted this could get really arbitrary. Eg the rotisserie chickens under the warmer were not allowed, the same chickens marked down the next day and put in the deli cooler were allowed. Or when I worked at a convenience store if a customer got something like a Hot Pocket and wanted to pay w/ EBT they had to do if before putting in the microwave, if they microwaved in first I was required to throw it away and make them get another out of the cooler before ringing them up. :rolleyes: I’m so glad I’ve long since moved on from there. On Sunday’s we sell hot ham and rolls. Our food stamp customers have to ask for ‘cold ham’. Same ham, same rolls, same price, huge PITA for the employees who have to go to the cooler, open up a new ham, slice a pound off of that, wrap it up, put it back in the cooler and then remember to heat it next. I’ve thought about calling our local/regional SNAP office to see if I can sell them the hot ham since the ‘hot foods’ rule isn’t really directed at that, it’s meant to keep people from using their SNAP money at restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141/80 "2015-09-12T20:55:34Z")
New developments. I’m pleasantly surprised at Whole Food’s response to this incident. They’re making some important policy changes. But, apparently only in California? I guess nothing changes at their stores nationwide? I bolded a statement from the director of American Guard Services of Concord. The new security company that Whole Foods hired. Its a good point that security shouldn’t be intimidating or scary. There’s been times I’ve felt uncomfortable in retail stores with armed guards. I’m not sure why, but I do feel intimidated by their presence. Like I’m not welcome in the store. [http://www.ktvu.com/news/17220353-story](http://www.ktvu.com/news/17220353-story) > [@](#): > > Whole Foods will no longer allow its security guards to carry guns beginning Monday, Sept. 7, after a violent incident where a guard beat a shopper at an Oakland store so badly the person had to be hospitalized. > > The new policy applies to all 43 grocery stores in the Northern California region, and is in response to customer feedback, according to spokesperson Beth Krauss > [@](#): > > “ **No matter what, guards have to remember it’s a retail environment, and they shouldn’t intimidate people who are there to shop** ,” said AGS President Lawrence. “If they’re not comfortable with the public, then they shouldn’t be working in retail.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-beats-man-at-whole-foods-over-ebt-card/730141.md?page=5)