# Security clearance in the U.S. armed services **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 30, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468 "2016-11-30T17:07:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/61 "2016-12-01T18:46:29Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > What’s he/she charged with, if it’s not violating “security/classification” JAG codes? And how often, roughly, does it come up, ranging from “here’s a copy of my Field Manual” to drunkenly blabshowing off at a bar? > > I.e., what’s the charge–if there is a catch-all-- when sentenced for the above to what **Bear Nenno** just wrote “Punishment for a violation could be anything from non-judicial punishment to discharge, to full-on incarceration. Like most everything, it depends on the severity of the case, potential consequences, etc.” I’ll pull up a list of possible charges later today. But off the top of my head I can tell you there is no blanket charge. It’s going to depend on exactly what happened. It would definitely include Article 92 - Failure to obey order or regulation, and could possibly include things like Article 104 - Aiding the Enemy, Article 106 - Espionage, Article 81 - Conspiracy, and maybe things like Article 94 - Mutiny and Sedition, or something in Article 134. That’s just military specific crimes. He would also be charged under a ton of federal crimes, which I’m not completely familiar with. For a good look at possible charges, see if you can Google the list of Bradly Manning’s charges. He(She) was charged with two dozen different offenses, both military and civilian. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/62 "2016-12-01T18:57:11Z")
That would be for more serious and maliscious violations, of course. If its just a new private who shared a classified manual with his buddy to show off, its going to be Article 92 and nothing more. Though, he could still get discharged, fined, and jailed for violating that Article. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/63 "2016-12-01T19:04:08Z")
Yeah, it’s that good old 92. Gets ya every time. Have to remember that when my wife calls me on the carpet 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/64 "2016-12-01T20:19:56Z")
**Bear\_Nenno** would I be right in guessing that most people in an Air Defence Artillery or Signals Battalion would have some clearance? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/65 "2016-12-01T20:52:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Bear\_Nenno would I be right in guessing that most people in an Air Defence Artillery or Signals Battalion would have some clearance? A quick check at [www.army-portal.com](http://www.army-portal.com) shows that all but two of the ADA jobs and all of the Signal Corps job require a Secret clearance. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/66 "2016-12-01T21:31:03Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Yeah, it’s that good old 92. Gets ya every time. > > Have to remember that when my wife calls me on the carpet 🙂 And for just that one violation, the following potential punishments can result: Non-Judicial Summarized Article 15: -Extra duty for up to 14 days -Restriction for up to 14 days -oral reprimand or admonition (any combination of the above) Company Grade Article 15: -Extra duty for up to 14 days -Restriction for up to 14 days -oral reprimand or admonition -forfeiture of up to seven days pay -reduction in rank of one grade (any combination of the above) Field Grade Article 15: -Extra duty for up to 45 days -Restriction for up to 60 days (max of 45 if combined with extra duty) -Oral reprimand or admonition -Forfeiture of one-half pay per month for two months -Reduction to E-1 (for E-4 and below) or reduction of one grade for E-5 and E-6 (Any combination of the above, with the noted exception of the 45 day limit for restriction if combined with extra duty) Judicial Punishment (Court Martial) _Maximum Punishment_: -Dishonorable discharge -Forfeiture of all pay and allowances -Confinement for 2 years ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/67 "2016-12-03T15:23:12Z")
Different than LSLGuy’s experience, coming out of Army ROTC inj the early 90s having at least a minimum of a Secret clearance (which all officers require with some branches requiring TS) was a pre-commissioning requirement. Interim IIRC met the requirement. Having the TS before MI Officer’s Basic course was an issue for a Lieutenant that became out Battalion Chemical Officer. He’d wanted MI but hadn’t been on the ball with the process so couldn’t ship to school until they knew it was worth spending the money to train him. That was late 90s. There’s another level of classification below Secret, Restricted. It doesn’t get talked about much. Technically the enlistment background check was enough and every Soldier in the Army had access to restricted unless later action removed that. IN that sense every Soldier technically starts with clearance to access to classified information. It’s largely forgotten since we don’t have a separate information system for Restricted material. That pushes it all to the Secret system as the next higher. IMO the technical side produces inflation of classification. When it doubt make it Secret since it will be on the Secret system. It produces issues for junior officers - “technically this whole movement order is ‘Secret’ so I can’t brief my troops on stuff like our route.” IME most of those cases get settled in favor of telling troops what they need to know instead of following the letter of classification which is it’s own big issue. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/68 "2016-12-03T15:46:45Z")
When I was in the Army, I was signal and had a secret clearance. Part of getting security clearance is having good credit. So occasionally you would see the First Sergeant calling soldiers into his office and start yelling at them about some Best Buy credit card or something like that or a car payment they weren’t making and how they were going to end up costing themselves their clearance and they needed to pay their bills. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/69 "2016-12-03T17:06:19Z")
Army: 1 FBI: 0 [Robert Hannsen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen), the most damaging and heinous man in FBI history, now not reading this in 23-hour solitary confinement (if Wiki is to be believed), was in fantastic debt when he joined, and continued his espionage predominantly for the money. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468/70 "2016-12-05T14:28:33Z")
There is process where the application for the clearance is submitted and an initial screening via database checks is done. At that point, it is possible to get an interim clearance. You have all of the access but could lose that if the full investigation finds something not in the databases. That is one way the issue of spending a lot of time and money on someone who doesn’t get a final clearance is mitigated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-clearance-in-the-u-s-armed-services/773468.md?page=3)