# Security Guards follow policy and stand by while girl gets beaten. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613 "2010-02-11T22:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/21 "2010-02-12T14:26:08Z")
Possible or not, they technically have no obligation to stop it, and good samaritan laws may or may not apply to assaults. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/22 "2010-02-12T14:41:36Z")
“The security guard groped me when he broke up the fight” would cause a whole other mess of legal issues. Granted, if that were me I would have intervened. If for no other reason that to pull the other girl safely away. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/23 "2010-02-12T14:49:08Z")
If I were a regular citizen, I would jump in to protect her without question because the law protects common citizens in cases like that. The trouble is, I’m not a regular citizen-I’m in the sucurity business, and if I am on duty, Good Samaritan laws do not protect me from getting fired or sued. Now, I’m in the biz because I’m damn good at it and like what I’m doing, but currently the field of security, because clients refuse to pay what the job is really worth and security companies are willing to slit each other’s throats to get contracts, is filled with people who cannot get other jobs for various reasons. Most of these people cannot get other jobs if they get fired, and they certainly can’t afford a lawyer if they get sued. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/24 "2010-02-12T15:01:58Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Those guard did nothing wrong in that video. Looks like they were trying to convince her to stop and they called the police. That bitch was crazy and they could’ve been hurt. > > What did you want them to do? _They could have been hurt_? Are you shitting me? You’d stand by and watch somebody have their head repeatedly stamped on because you may get “hurt” by a 15 year old girl? WTF. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/25 "2010-02-12T15:02:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have a way to change the policy (maybe): > > The girl’s family should sue the security guards’ company for a policy having them standing by and doing nothing. > > IANAL so not sure how that would fly but I would think the security guards have a positive duty to protect the area they are responsible for. I think the public there has a right to expect their intervention. What the hell is security there for anyway? Good thing you are not a lawyer. In at least Ohio, can’t speak to other states but would guess they are similar, a private security guard has a duty to only protect what he has been contracted to protect. Most security contracts provide that the firm is to provide security to the property only. There is no affirmative duty to protect those on the property beyond what an ordinary citizen would be required to do. Remember, private security guards are just that, private. They are not officers of the law, they do not have the training the police officers have nor do they have the backing of the government and a union when things wrong. Ethically, should the security guards have done something if they could, and job be dammed? Yes. I hope that I would do something if I were in that situation. But it is very easy to have things get out of hand in such an event, and we shouldn’t require people to act when they have not accepted a duty to act. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/26 "2010-02-12T15:14:24Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > “The security guard groped me when he broke up the fight” would cause a whole other mess of legal issues. > Granted, if that were me I would have intervened. If for no other reason that to pull the other girl safely away. There seem to have been a dozen or so other passers-by just standing around and watching. If people are going to scream about the security guards, fine, but scream at the other people too. I mean, honestly, nobody expects security personnel to get physically involved in altercations. Unless they’re protecting Puff Daddy or they’re nightclub security, it just ain’t there thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/27 "2010-02-12T15:48:37Z")
If the rules get in the way of doing the right thing, hang the rules. And hang the consequences of hanging the rules, too. They’re more like guidelines, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/28 "2010-02-12T16:27:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > All I can say is that I would have tried to intervene. Policy kiss my ass. If I see some shit like that, somebody’s getting hit in the head with a stick. I’d prefer to be able live with myself than to follow policy. This. If you need a policy to stop someone from being beaten then there is something mentally wrong with you. It’s called common sense. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/29 "2010-02-12T16:28:41Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Those guard did nothing wrong in that video. Looks like they were trying to convince her to stop and they called the police. That bitch was crazy and they could’ve been hurt. > > What did you want them to do? They were citizens who were witnessing a misdemeanor (at least) in progress. They were entitled to make a citizen’s arrest. [Cite.](http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/citizenarrest1.pdf) I’d like for them to have made a citizen’s arrest. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/30 "2010-02-12T16:29:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I have a way to change the policy (maybe): > > The girl’s family should sue the security guards’ company for a policy having them standing by and doing nothing. > > IANAL so not sure how that would fly but I would think the security guards have a positive duty to protect the area they are responsible for. I think the public there has a right to expect their intervention. What the hell is security there for anyway? Wouldn’t fly. You almost never have an obligation to assist others, especially if there is any risk involved to yourself, unless you have taken a part in creating the situation that is endangering them. If I push you into a swimming pool, and it turns out you cannot swim, I have an obligation to help you out. If you fall in, I can sit and watch you go under. This can be changed by statute, such as in Latham, Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/31 "2010-02-12T16:33:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > They were citizens who were witnessing a misdemeanor (at least) in progress. They were entitled to make a citizen’s arrest. [Cite.](http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/citizenarrest1.pdf) > > I’d like for them to have made a citizen’s arrest. _Everybody_ that was there had the same entitlement, and the _only_ ones who would have lost their jobs for doing so were the security officers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/32 "2010-02-12T16:33:19Z")
I’m sure if they had intervened and broken up the fight, there would be people who would be outraged at how security guards were beating up some young girls. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/33 "2010-02-12T16:35:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There seem to have been a dozen or so other passers-by just standing around and watching. If people are going to scream about the security guards, fine, but scream at the other people too. Shouldn’t people scream louder about the passers-by not doing anything? Presumably they have no fear of losing their jobs for violating policy if they intervene. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/34 "2010-02-12T16:39:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > They were citizens who were witnessing a misdemeanor (at least) in progress. They were entitled to make a citizen’s arrest. [Cite.](http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/securityguards/citizenarrest1.pdf) > > I’d like for them to have made a citizen’s arrest. P.S. Since there were three of them, two could have told the third that they were going on their break. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/35 "2010-02-12T16:41:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Everybody_ that was there had the same entitlement, and the _only_ ones who would have lost their jobs for doing so were the security officers. Point taken. I don’t absolve any of the bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/36 "2010-02-12T16:41:58Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > Shouldn’t people scream louder about the passers-by not doing anything? Presumably they have no fear of losing their jobs for violating policy if they intervene. Yes, but although most people think of unarmed security as fat old guys, they probably don’t realize that those fat old guys could actually get fired for getting physically involved. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/37 "2010-02-12T16:43:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > P.S. Since there were three of them, two could have told the third that they were going on their break. 1. Security Officers don’t go “on break” whenever they want, leaving a site understaffed. 2. Even when they are on break, they are still on duty. 3. _Nobody_ would be dumb enough to buy that story. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/38 "2010-02-12T16:48:49Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > They were citizens who were witnessing a misdemeanor (at least) in progress. They were entitled to make a citizen’s arrest. They were entitled as citizens, not as employees. As has been brought up numerous times, one of the rules they must follow is not intervening, which means not stopping a violent person and arresting them. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > P.S. Since there were three of them, two could have told the third that they were going on their break. You don’t know they could have decided on their own to go on break. When you’re on a break, you’re still on the job and have to follow the same rules, especially when in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/39 "2010-02-12T16:56:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Point taken. I don’t absolve any of the bystanders. Citizen’s arrest doesn’t protect you from a lawsuit or possible criminal charges against you… > [@](#): > > Making a citizen’s arrest maliciously or with insufficient evidence of wrongdoing by the arrested individual can lead to civil or criminal penalties. Additionally, it is in violation of a suspects rights for a citizen making an arrest to use unnecessary force, to intentionally harm the suspect, to hold the suspect in unsafe conditions, or to delay in turning the suspect over to authorities. A citizen making an arrest is acting in the place of an officer of the law, and as such, is required to uphold the same rights and civil liberties as an officer of the law must uphold. > > A citizen who violates a suspects rights, or who violates the applicable state law in detaining the suspect, (for example, arresting a suspect for a misdemeanor when the state statute requires a felony for a citizens arrest), risks being sued or even charged with a crime. Additionally, if it is found that the arresting party did not meet the pertinent state requirements for a citizens arrest, any contraband found on the suspect will have been found illegally, and charges may be dropped entirely. > > If you feel that you have been unfairly arrested by a citizen, or if you have been charged with illegally detaining a suspect during an illegitimate citizens arrest, it is important to seek the counsel of an experienced attorney. A good attorney will demonstrate familiarity with state laws, and as such will help you to ensure the best possible outcome of your case. From [here](http://www.criminalattorney.com/news/citizens-arrest/). ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/40 "2010-02-12T16:56:50Z")
People who can intervene or stop a crime without fear of physical danger yet do not do so should be punished to the second degree of that crime (ie second degree murder in a murder case). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613.md?page=3)