# Security Guards follow policy and stand by while girl gets beaten. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613 "2010-02-11T22:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/41 "2010-02-12T16:58:34Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > People who can intervene or stop a crime without fear of physical danger yet do not do so should be punished to the second degree of that crime (ie second degree murder in a murder case). That’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/42 "2010-02-12T17:03:08Z")
> [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > That’s ridiculous. No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/43 "2010-02-12T17:08:13Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No it isn’t. I’m not going to get into a childish argument here, but who’s going to determine whether there’s fear of physical danger? Then who’s going to prove to the satisfaction of a jury that the person was in no physical danger? Is the government going to pay damages to people who get hurt trying to intervene? Your idealism is showing. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/44 "2010-02-12T17:13:05Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No it isn’t. Yeah, it is. When is there not a physical danger when stopping a crime? What if I’m too scared to stop a crime in progress? You want tax dollars going towards prosecuting me, regardless of what a model citizen I am? Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/45 "2010-02-12T17:27:12Z")
You have to remember it COSTS just to be sued. You can have Good Samaritan Laws and such but so what? People can still use you. So the judge throws it out when it gets to court and in the meantime your company has spent $2,000 on lawyers to show up and watch the case get thrown out. And who loses their job, the security gaurd and since he’s fired for misconduct, he is not going to get unemployment most likely. Security called 911 and that was the extent. I hate to say this, and maybe it’s 'cause I live in a rough area of Chicago, but I wouldn’t get involved. Too many people carry guns, knives, tasers, pepper spray. Look at me, I don’t have health insurance. If I stepped in, and got pepper sprayed, I’d wind up having to pay a doctor bill at minimum and a hospital bill more likely out of my pocket. Security guards are more effective then a camera, simply because criminals, generally aren’t stupid. They feel much braver with a camera than a person who may challenge them. Even if the security guard is told not to, the criminal doesn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/46 "2010-02-12T17:49:24Z")
> [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > I’m not going to get into a childish argument here, but who’s going to determine whether there’s fear of physical danger? Then who’s going to prove to the satisfaction of a jury that the person was in no physical danger? Is the government going to pay damages to people who get hurt trying to intervene? Your idealism is showing. > [@Fantome](#): > > Yeah, it is. When is there not a physical danger when stopping a crime? What if I’m too scared to stop a crime in progress? You want tax dollars going towards prosecuting me, regardless of what a model citizen I am? Ridiculous. For instance if you were several hundred feet away and the criminal did not see you and you didn’t even bother to call the cops it’s pretty obvious. And if you’re scared even than than you’re a coward. NOTE: “You” does not specify anybody so not personal insult ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/47 "2010-02-12T18:01:24Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For instance if you were several hundred feet away and the criminal did not see you and you didn’t even bother to call the cops it’s pretty obvious. And if you’re scared even than than you’re a coward. NOTE: “You” does not specify anybody so not personal insult I understand that you’re only a child, but if someone is several hundred feet away, how are you going to prove they know anything about the crime? What if they don’t own a cell phone and there’s no pay phones around? And your statement said intervene… calling the cops is not intervening. The guards that you’re upset with called the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/48 "2010-02-12T18:02:55Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For instance if you were several hundred feet away and the criminal did not see you and you didn’t even bother to call the cops it’s pretty obvious. What’s this have to do with the OP? 911 was called. What’s pretty obvious? You mentioned murder. You think it’s obvious when a murder is being committed that there isn’t an accomplice near by that will harm me for calling the cops? I’m supposed to think rationally about being an informant while having just witnessed a murder? And if not, I should be charged with second degree murder? Do you even know what second degree murder is? > [@](#): > > And if you’re scared even than than you’re a coward. And you want people prosecuted for being cowards? Terrific. I don’t want to help derail this thread since it’s now apparent you aren’t talking about this case, so I’ll stop responding to your fantasies now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/49 "2010-02-12T18:03:17Z")
> [@](#): > > People who can intervene or stop a crime without fear of physical danger yet do not do so should be punished to the second degree of that crime (ie second degree murder in a murder case). Wasn’t physical danger the whole point here? This was an assault - somebody was being beaten up. How do you get involved in that without putting yourself in some physical danger? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/50 "2010-02-12T18:05:12Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > For instance if you were several hundred feet away and the criminal did not see you and you didn’t even bother to call the cops it’s pretty obvious. And if you’re scared even than than you’re a coward. NOTE: “You” does not specify anybody so not personal insult There’s no law against being a coward. Hell, you can still be President! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/51 "2010-02-12T18:06:58Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > What’s this have to do with the OP? 911 was called. What’s pretty obvious? You mentioned murder. You think it’s obvious when a murder is being committed that there isn’t an accomplice near by that will harm me for calling the cops? I’m supposed to think rationally about being an informant while having just witnessed a murder? And if not, I should be charged with second degree murder? Do you even know what second degree murder is? And you want people prosecuted for being cowards? Terrific. I don’t want to help derail this thread since it’s now apparent you aren’t talking about this case, so I’ll stop responding to your fantasies now. Perhaps not second degree murder-manslaughter or such. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/52 "2010-02-12T18:08:44Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Perhaps not second degree murder-manslaughter or such. No, you really need to quit thinking emotionally and start thinking logically and see the problems that would create. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/53 "2010-02-12T18:39:39Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Look at me, I don’t have health insurance. If I stepped in, and got pepper sprayed, I’d wind up having to pay a doctor bill at minimum and a hospital bill more likely out of my pocket. Pepper spray is a bad example here. You don’t need a doctor, hospital or the ER for pepper spray. You just need _time_, time enough for its effects to subside. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/54 "2010-02-12T18:41:51Z")
And chimichangas. Yum! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/55 "2010-02-12T18:51:34Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > That’s despicable. The assailant was a 15-year-old girl. Three people could easily control her. I can understand not getting involved if a couple of big, scary thugs are fighting, but it’s a teenage girl and she’s outnumbered 3 to 1 by guards, and more by the other bystanders. When she started kicking the girl in the head, I think any decent person had an obligation to stop it. That could kill somebody. I think three security guards could have (and should have) controlled her, but I think people have an unrealistic idea of how easy it is to control a mad human. At 15 years old, the assailant is almost full-grown, there is a good chance any of those spectators could have gotten hurt intervening. That’s not an excuse not to intervene, but it is a reality - if you step up, you might catch a punch in the face yourself (or a knife in the ribs). I would hate to be the security guards in that position - yes, ethically you ARE the people who should be stopping this, but no, you aren’t legally the people who should be stopping it. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_N](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Anthony\_N](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anthony_N)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/56 "2010-02-12T18:51:38Z")
Because security guards wear uniforms that look similar to police, is appears from the article that the girl assumed they would have authority to protect the area. But in reality, security guard’s uniforms and air of authority are just a bluff to deter criminal activity. This incident illustrates that they have no more authority than an ordinary citizen and should serve as a lesson to anyone seeking help from another person who is not an on-duty police officer. If anything, incidents like this should cause us to consider if there should be limits to security guard’s uniforms so that they do not look so similar to law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/57 "2010-02-12T19:00:12Z")
That’s probably the best idea anyone’s suggested so far. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/58 "2010-02-12T22:27:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Exactly. They may work as guards, but they’re human beings first. I tend to agree with the sentiment, but as someone who has previously had his employment terminated for “doing the right thing” (No Good Deed Goes Unpunished), I can also feel sympathy for the security guards and their inaction. I’ll note that, in the video, it does appear that one guard was trying to calm/stop the situation while maintaining a “hands-off” position. Some of those guards have families, car payments, mortgages, etc. And being “terminated for cause” can seriously impact their ability to find a comparable paying job. These people’s kids should go without? They should risk eviction/foreclosure/repossession? That’s a lot to ask someone to put on the line. It’s a tought situation for them; damned if they do, damned if they don’t, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/59 "2010-02-12T23:13:57Z")
> [@Anthony\_N](#): > > Because security guards wear uniforms that look similar to police, is appears from the article that the girl assumed they would have authority to protect the area. But in reality, security guard’s uniforms and air of authority are just a bluff to deter criminal activity. > > This incident illustrates that they have no more authority than an ordinary citizen and should serve as a lesson to anyone seeking help from another person who is not an on-duty police officer. Perhaps the scariest bit is that the attacker(s) know full-well that these three adults won’t be stopping her any time soon, going so far as to leave and return to beat the girl some more. So really, what is the point of posting powerless staff that don’t even offer the air of authority? Any witness can call the cops. If there is criminal activity, they should have real cops posted in the area. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/60 "2010-02-12T23:14:14Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think three security guards could have (and should have) controlled her, but I think people have an unrealistic idea of how easy it is to control a mad human. So forget about the assailant. _Pick up the hurt girl off of the ground and take her to a safe place._ Maybe you get kicked a couple of times in the process, this is still better than letting this girl get stomped to death before the police get there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613.md?page=4)