# Security Guards follow policy and stand by while girl gets beaten. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613 "2010-02-11T22:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/61 "2010-02-12T23:22:33Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > So forget about the assailant. _Pick up the hurt girl off of the ground and take her to a safe place._ Maybe you get kicked a couple of times in the process, this is still better than letting this girl get stomped to death before the police get there. She got kicked in the head several times. You DO NOT move someone with possible head/neck injuries. What you do is protect her from her assailant. There were three large men. They couldn’t form a human wall? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/62 "2010-02-13T00:10:21Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > She got kicked in the head several times. You DO NOT move someone with possible head/neck injuries. What you do is protect her from her assailant. There were three large men. They couldn’t form a human wall? Ah, I won’t watch the video (I don’t need to see a little girl being brutalized) but the point definitely works your way too. Screw the assailant, protect the victim. ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/63 "2010-02-13T00:22:02Z")
This: **When involved with Seattle Transit, you’re on your own. Makes concealed/carry look pretty smart** It appears that being armed is one’s only recourse since the “security” guards are there to only observe and inform. Apparently citizens have more power than the guards, re: Good Samitarian Laws. Reading a lot of the comments on the website reveals that many like me thought that the security guards were there to help protect a person’s security. Thier only there to provide an illusionary deterent. They should have observation guard on thier shirts instead. Cameras would be cheaper. Anyways, as is usual, its all about money. Guard intervenes on moral grounds and the parents scream outrage over thier precious disrespectful brats getting a smackdown. Lawsuits commence, companies loose money. When I was younger in the 2nd grade no less, I spoke out in class while the teacher was talking, and got a good paddling for it. From there on out, I kept my mouth shut and listened. In today’s world, the parents can’t paddle thier own kids, nor can the teachers without screams of child abuse. Noone wants to take any responsibility for thier actions and wants the state to do everything for them. Kids have no respect for thier elders, thier peers or thier bodies, so no surprise with the crap we see today. > **[Suite 101 - How-tos, Inspiration and Other Ideas to Try](https://suite101.com/)** > > Suite101 helps you discover home ideas, DIY crafts, gardening, food, style inspiration, how-tos and other ideas to make your life better. Anway’s this is off topic, but somewhat related in that it is a everyone for themselves and to heck with everyone else. From Goldman Sachs to those sucking off the public teat via welfare when able to work. Greed. ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/64 "2010-02-13T00:54:04Z")
Hmm, I wonder if the guards would have to intervene if the girl started beating on one of them? Better to get arrested than have your head kicked in. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/65 "2010-02-13T01:13:46Z")
> [@](#): > > It appears that being armed is one’s only recourse Yeah right, because the real tragedy of this situation was that nobody got shot. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/66 "2010-02-13T01:36:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah right, because the real tragedy of this situation was that nobody got shot. Absolutely correct - one should always be willing to take a good beating rather than protect oneself. ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/67 "2010-02-13T01:49:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yeah right, because the real tragedy of this situation was that nobody got shot. Umm, getting kicked in the head until your unconscious like this girl can cause long term damage and even death. [sarcasm]But it’s all good because no bullets were involved. It’s not being killed or injured that matters, but how your killed or injured[/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![randy054](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@randy054](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randy054)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/68 "2010-02-13T03:11:26Z")
Here’s a snip of a post from : [http://www.breitbart.tv/caught-on-tape-seattle-security-guards-stand-by-as-teen-girl-brutally-attacked/](http://www.breitbart.tv/caught-on-tape-seattle-security-guards-stand-by-as-teen-girl-brutally-attacked/) from a retired Oakland Police Officer that I found intriguing > [@](#): > > I’m a retired Oakland Police Officer and I’m a little dismayed at the racism and backlash against the security officers that is occurring on this site. While I agree it would have been prudent for the officers to try and put themselves between the attacker and the victim to prevent any injury, it would have been foolish (and probably suicidal) for them to try and confront the gang directly. > > As for their inaction clause in their contract **it’s a sad reality of life in America today due to the unethical and predatory nature of trial lawyers and the inevitable fallout their vile practices force on corporations and governments**. But this has been going on for a very long time and isn’t a new thing to those of us on the front lines in urban America. > > Back in the 80’s and 90s when I was on the streets in Oakland, I had several (4 or 5 come to mind) incidents similar to this that occurred involving the Oakland Fire department, and a similar non-action clause in their contract with the city. The most extreme example would be when I was trying to make an arrest on one man and his mother called an ambulance and tried to fake a heart attack to try and get me to somehow not make the arrest. > > When the man’s brother saw that wasn’t going to work, he jumped me and both he and his brother viciously attacked me in the street. At one point I was being choked and they slammed me into the grill of the fire engine that had responded, yet all 5 men from the engine stood and watched without taking any action to assist me as these two thugs tried to kill me. > > I was forced to use some serious force and sent the brother to the hospital in the end and ended up arresting both men, but I was utterly flabbergasted that not one fireman lifted a finger to help. After I finished the paperwork and put the two men in jail, I went straight to the firehouse and had a heart to heart with the men from the engine. > > Needless to say, I was livid, but after discussing it with them, I realized that they had been broken by the corrupt Oakland government and the constant droning they received from those in authority positions that they better not get involved EVER in a physical confrontation or they would be fired on the spot. I guess you could say they were apathetic. > > Sure they’d run into a burning building crumbling around them, so they weren’t cowards, it was just the blasted city lawyers had actually put them in fear of their livelihood, so they had made the decision long before that day to resist the urge to ever get involved in any kind of violent confrontation. > > **It was so bad that a fire engine even stood by once as a victim ran around their engine several times as a man chased him down and murdered him**. Again not a finger was lifted to help. It’s weird I know, and hard to explain, they weren’t cowards, they had just been indoctrinated to the notion of not doing anything long beforehand, so they didn’t do anything when things inevitably occurred later. > > So what happened in the video here is nothing new, it’s just a symptom of the corrupt trial lawyers and how they’ve destroyed “justice” in America. Until they are run out of town, this kind of travesty will never stop happening in America. Another good reason to be armed, because in the end, its up to you protect yourself. This is not a knock down on police officers, but, thier main goal is collect money for the state and local coffers, and to protect business interests. I’ve seen mention by a lot of security officers, that thier main reason for being is in interests of the business that they are overlooking, in looking out of theft, vandalism etc. Also, I came across this article : [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html) **Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone** WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman’s pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed. It’s quite clear that arming with a gun, taser , pepper spray etc is your best bet for self defense, because there are numerous examples where noone is going to help you. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/69 "2010-02-13T14:19:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Absolutely correct - one should always be willing to take a good beating rather than protect oneself. I’ve been in fistfights and I’m still alive. Fortunately, I’ve never been shot but I hear it can kill you. Some people act like guns are magic. Pull out a gun and suddenly the fight stops. But what can happen is you pull out a gun and the other gun pulls out his gun. Now all you’ve done is turn a fistfight into a gunfight. And not a TV gunfight where the bullets only hit the bad guys. So, no, I’m not willing to take a good beating rather than protect myself. But I’d rather take a good beating than a good shooting. Getting punched and kicked is a lot better than getting shot. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/70 "2010-02-13T17:52:48Z")
> [@](#): > > So, no, I’m not willing to take a good beating rather than protect myself. But I’d rather take a good beating than a good shooting. Getting punched and kicked is a lot better than getting shot. My intent here is just to make sure I understand where Little Nemo is coming from, not to start a fuss. In the above quote the poster states that he is not willing to take a beating rather than defend himself, but then goes on to say essentially that he doesn’t want to take the chance of being shot, so would rather take the beating. I don’t quite understand this - does this mean that if you are outnumbered/over matched, the beating is the only option because you don’t want to use what would be considered the ultimate defense? Not being snarky - but would like to know what your feelings are on this subject. And a little clarificatin on my part. I’n not a ravening gun nut, and while owning several long guns, don’t own a handgun. I’ve never seen a gun used in anger, and the only fist fight I was ever in was in the third grade some seventy years ago (it was a draw). So please consider all the above to be a highly theoretical discussion. The post just before quoting the police officer is, I fear, too close to the real truth. I know that here in Seattle the police are under constant scrutiny to catch the slightest overreaction to any incident. The recent murder of five local police officers has ameliorated this for the time being, but I rather expect not for long. They are really damned if they do and damned if they don’t. And on a parenthetical subject (would this be another word for a hi-jack?) the Seattle Times this morning had a news article about Seattle’s recently imposed gun ban in all city owned parks. Even though the state Constitution expressly forbids local governments from over-riding state law, the last Mayor issued this directive on his own initiative. The state Attorney General warned that it was unconstitutional, but the Mayor ignored him. Anyway, a Superior Court judge yesterday issued a ruling that the ban was illegal, and gave the City thirty days to remove all the gun ban signs that they had installed in all the city parks. I put this here because I didn’t want to start another thread, but thought it was interesting and at least sort of on subject (kind of). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/71 "2010-02-13T18:24:16Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > I don’t quite understand this - does this mean that if you are outnumbered/over matched, the beating is the only option because you don’t want to use what would be considered the ultimate defense? The post you’re responding to makes the reasoning clear, doesn’t it? If your assailant also has a gun, you pulling yours to defend yourself only escalates the lethality of the situation. It is, in effect, a gamble on your life, not a sure-fire ultimate defense, unless you know for sure your assailant doesn’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/72 "2010-02-13T18:41:35Z")
There is a big outcry for a change in policy, to allow the guards to take direct action in future incidents. This would involve a change in state law, and a major increase in pay and/or benefits for security. Without a raise in pay, most security officers will refuse to take that kind of post, and the few that would you _really_ don’t want there. Security Officers get close to minimum wage and the benefits(if they exist at all) are laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/73 "2010-02-13T19:12:34Z")
As a teacher I have had to physically break up numerous fights even between girls. Rule of thumbs: Be careful where you grab Let them go once they’re separated and stand between them. Any agressive move after that point and I’m protecting myself Carry professional liability insurance The big difference is breaking up a fight is part of my professional duties and therefore offers SOME obligation and protection. For these security guards they would be action as private citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613/74 "2010-02-13T19:18:58Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The post you’re responding to makes the reasoning clear, doesn’t it? If your assailant also has a gun, you pulling yours to defend yourself only escalates the lethality of the situation. It is, in effect, a gamble on your life, not a sure-fire ultimate defense, unless you know for sure your assailant doesn’t have one. Even then, a gun in your hands is only useful if you know how to use it. Simply owning a gun is not the ultimate defense; training and knowledge of how and when to use it is needed. A weapon you don’t know how to use belongs to the enemy, and all that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-guards-follow-policy-and-stand-by-while-girl-gets-beaten/528613.md?page=3)