# Security question for Apple? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141 "2009-02-02T20:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Professor\_Murder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/90ced4/32.png) [@Professor\_Murder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Professor_Murder)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/1 "2009-02-02T20:50:00Z")
Can anybody here give me any advice regarding Apple computers needing security software such as antivirus or firewall programs? Do they need any? I keep hearing different things from different people, and I’m hoping someone here who has an Apple computer can advise me. Thanks for your input. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/2 "2009-02-02T21:13:14Z")
You don’t need it, in my opinion. That may change in the future, but at present, there are no serious threats. Some companies require software to detect and eliminate hostile software contained in Microsoft Office files, which is more of a problem with Microsoft Office than it is with Mac OS X. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/3 "2009-02-02T21:31:41Z")
If you’re dual-booting, you’ll need it in the Windows installation, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/4 "2009-02-02T21:43:57Z")
Virus scanner - probably not worth the hassle. Firewall - OSX 10.5 at least has a built-in firewall plus a reasonably good built-in privilege & security system for detecting programs that try to use the network etc (you’ll get a pop-up to allow or deny access the first time a program tries it, and after that it’ll keep your choice). Personally, for any machine that’s connected to the internet at all regardless of OS, I would add a separate firewall just to block off any unwanted incoming connections. These are pretty much standard in DSL modems these days, so chances are you already have one. The main advantage of a separate firewall is that it’ll work even if you screw up or a dangerous hole is found in the security on any of the machines behind it. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/5 "2009-02-02T21:44:22Z")
Corporate environments that allow Macs may require AV protection and/or software firewalls as a matter of policy. Not so much to protect the Mac, but to prevent it from passing infected files to the rest of the network. If you’re running Windows on a Mac via Boot Camp or Parallels, it’s not a Mac. It’s a Windows PC, and as such, it’s vulnerable to any and all Windows viruses and exploits, and really ought to have AV protection. OTOH, if you’re good at doing backups, your Windows environment (with Parallels, at least - not 100% sure of Boot Camp) is just a large file on the Mac’s hard drive and easily enough restored to an earlier and hopefully uninfected version. ---
**Author:** ![Professor\_Murder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/90ced4/32.png) [@Professor\_Murder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Professor_Murder)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/6 "2009-02-02T22:04:11Z")
It’s a pretty old Mac running OS X 10.3.9 . I don’t know if this helps. I don’t think it would be capable of running any sort of firewall, it only has 256 MB of RAM and a 933 MHz processor. To be honest I’m not really used to Macs, mainly having used Windows pcs until now. I was just sick of the constant updating I had to do with my other computer’s security programs. I knew Macs weren’t impervious but I thought they would offer more protection, due to most malware and viruses being written for Windows. I don’t know if that is true it’s what an I.T. guy at work told me. I’m better at hardware than software when it comes to computers. But once again, thanks for your reponses. Also I was told that you can’t even get security suites for Mac. I went to an Apple reseller here in Dublin and they told me that Apple don’t provide any? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/7 "2009-02-02T22:10:08Z")
> [@Professor\_Murder](#): > > It’s a pretty old Mac running OS X 10.3.9 . I don’t know if this helps. I don’t think it would be capable of running any sort of firewall, it only has 256 MB of RAM and a 933 MHz processor. To be honest I’m not really used to Macs, mainly having used Windows pcs until now. I was just sick of the constant updating I had to do with my other computer’s security programs. I knew Macs weren’t impervious but I thought they would offer more protection, due to most malware and viruses being written for Windows. I don’t know if that is true it’s what an I.T. guy at work told me. I’m better at hardware than software when it comes to computers. But once again, thanks for your reponses. Also I was told that you can’t even get security suites for Mac. I went to an Apple reseller here in Dublin and they told me that Apple don’t provide any? 10.3.9 has the firewall built in - it’s in System Preferences -\> Network. At the current time, there are no attacks for OS X that don’t require some sort of user complicity. In other words, all of the current threats require the user to do something like download pirated software, or install a bogus video codec from a porn site. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/8 "2009-02-02T22:15:16Z")
> [@Professor\_Murder](#): > > Also I was told that you can’t even get security suites for Mac. I went to an Apple reseller here in Dublin and they told me that Apple don’t provide any? Until recently, Microsoft didn’t provide any security suite either, but that’s because they were and are made by other companies. And FYI, there have been Trojans found in pirated copies of iWork '09 or Photoshop CS4, per [this article](http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/26/two_new_trojan_horses_threaten_mac_software_pirates.html). Of course, you have to download and install pirated software to get infected. So if you’re not doing that, you won’t get these viruses. ---
**Author:** ![Professor\_Murder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/90ced4/32.png) [@Professor\_Murder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Professor_Murder)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/9 "2009-02-02T22:29:52Z")
So generally speaking, as long as I don’t use pirated software or download questionable files, I should be ok? I know you can’t offer any cast iron guarantees, but since I only intend to use it for websurfing and iTunes, I’m basically covered? I think that’s what you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/10 "2009-02-02T22:34:35Z")
Sounds good to me. I don’t run any AV or extra firewalls on my Macs at home. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/11 "2009-02-02T22:40:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I knew Macs weren’t impervious but I thought they would offer more protection, due to most malware and viruses being written for Windows. I don’t know if that is true it’s what an I.T. guy at work told me. It is certainly true that Mac is targetted less than Windows, and that’s certainly at least part of why Macs are safer. Precisely how big a part, as opposed to the inherent security of the systems, is a point of some debate, which I will not get into. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/12 "2009-02-02T22:57:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It is certainly true that Mac is targetted less than Windows, and that’s certainly at least part of why Macs are safer. Precisely how big a part, as opposed to the inherent security of the systems, is a point of some debate, which I will not get into. Certainly I’ve seen it debated, but I don’t think it can be denied that the majority of Windows PCs out there are, by design (or lack thereof) less secure than the majority of Macs - Windows XP creates users with full admin rights by default - and it’s difficult for many people to remedy that because there’s software out there that has been created on the assumption that the user has admin rights, and won’t run properly in a limited user account. As I understand it, Microsoft’s attempt to fix this in Vista consisted of asking the user to rubber-stamp any security-significant action, which was annoying enough to make many people turn it off, or just to click OK without really evaluating the question. I’m not underestimating the role of popularity in the distribution of malware attacks, but I do think there’s pretty clear factual evidence for Windows having a history of being inherently less secure than some other OSes. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/13 "2009-02-02T23:16:44Z")
Not according to most experts, and certainly not suggested by statistical evidence: [http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758](http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758) And keep in mind these were faults found and reported. Keep also in mind that mac has some 5% of the market and windows pretty much the rest. So you ca just imagine what those stats would say if the situation were reversed. For the 100th time on these boards (and because we are all here pledge to fight ignorance) the Mac is NOT _inherently_ more secure than a PC with a windows OS. The differences in security issues can mostly be laid at the feet of market share. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/14 "2009-02-02T23:19:56Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Not according to most experts, and certainly not suggested by statistical evidence: > > [http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758](http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758) > > And keep in mind these were faults found and reported. Keep also in mind that mac has some 5% of the market and windows pretty much the rest. So you ca just imagine what those stats would say if the situation were reversed. > > For the 100th time on these boards (and because we are all here pledge to fight ignorance) the Mac is NOT _inherently_ more secure than a PC with a windows OS. The differences in security issues can mostly be laid at the feet of market share. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/15 "2009-02-02T23:33:53Z")
I’m supposed to prove a negative now? Apple IS a religion, isn’t it? Why don’t you prove that Mac IS inherently superior? (note that I am not saying that windows is inherently superior). It’s going to be hard. The statistical data doesn’t back you up. Objective experts won’t back you up either. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/16 "2009-02-02T23:42:27Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Not according to most experts, and certainly not suggested by statistical evidence: > > [http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758](http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758) > > And keep in mind these were faults found and reported. Keep also in mind that mac has some 5% of the market and windows pretty much the rest. So you ca just imagine what those stats would say if the situation were reversed. > > For the 100th time on these boards (and because we are all here pledge to fight ignorance) the Mac is NOT _inherently_ more secure than a PC with a windows OS. The differences in security issues can mostly be laid at the feet of market share. You’re not even disagreeing with what I said. You’re talking about security flaws. I’m talking about design. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/17 "2009-02-03T00:10:46Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > I’m supposed to prove a negative now? Apple IS a religion, isn’t it? > > Why don’t you prove that Mac IS inherently superior? (note that I am not saying that windows is inherently superior). > > It’s going to be hard. The statistical data doesn’t back you up. Objective experts won’t back you up either. Good luck. Actually, all the statistics DO back me up. From a purely statistical perspective if OS X was just as easy to attack as Windows, it should have 100s or 1,000s of attacks in the wild (based on the installed base vs. Windows). The fact that it has only single digits would lead an impartial observer to assume that it is an inherently more secure OS. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/18 "2009-02-03T00:30:58Z")
Only if that impartial observer was mentally handicapped and/or completely ignorant of the fact that windows OS commands over 90% of the market. And only if they would take your statement at face value. Care to provide a cite for your numbers? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/19 "2009-02-03T00:57:27Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Only if that impartial observer was mentally handicapped and/or completely ignorant of the fact that windows OS commands over 90% of the market. And only if they would take your statement at face value. Care to provide a cite for your numbers? Be glad to. From [here](http://www.sevenforums.com/system-security/784-15-million-new-malware-types-discovered-2008-a.html) 15 Million new types of Windows malware were discovered in 2008. From [here](http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=596) the Windows installed base was expected to reach 1 Billion in 2008. From [here](http://lowendmac.com/nash/08tn/50-million-os-x-users.html), the Mac installed base is 50 Million (but I suspect it’s probably closer to 100 Million). So if Apple has 50,000,000 / 1,000,000,000 = 5% of the market, there should be 750,000 pieces of malware out there for OS X. As even you will admit, thats 4 orders of magnitude to high. Therefore, one can only conclude that OS X is inherently more secure than Windows. Unless you’re a Windows fanboi. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141/20 "2009-02-03T01:02:38Z")
To be fair, there’s no particular reason to expect a linear, proportional relationship between market share and cases of malware. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-question-for-apple/484141.md?page=2)