# Security Theater, or OMG! He MIGHT HAVE a PLASTIC GUN!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750 "2013-09-01T19:46:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/1 "2013-09-01T19:46:25Z")
[begin (highly annoyed) rant] OK, so somebody made a gun with a 3D printer out of plastic. It won’t show up on the metal detectors that are now everywhere. But it didn’t work very well. It blew up on it’s third shot, and it was a single-shot that took forever to load, anyway. I’ve got some nice surgical stainless steel in my leg, which I keep getting told “no, that won’t set it off”, yet I beep anyway. That steel has sufficient tensile strength to make a decent gun barrel out of, or they wouldn’t have put it in my goddamn leg in the first fucking place. If _that_ doesn’t set off your alarms, why is anyone worrying about a single-use _plastic_ barrel, when they (terrorists) could use the surgical stainless steel my doctor used in my leg, and it’ll be _so_ much better than the plastic the 3D printer will _ever_ produce? Seriously? I could cut off my leg, and _forge_ that shit into a gun barrel. But you can’t detect it in my leg? Are you really _serious_ about that? And we’re trusting you fools for our security? But I beep anyway, and you wave me through, because of my brass belt buckle? _EVERY FUCKING TIME I COME IN FROM HAVING A FUCKING SMOKE?_ What are you ‘Security Theater’ morons even there for? How does your presence protect us? And what are you protecting us _from?_ The World Wonders… [/end (highly annoyed) rant] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/2 "2013-09-01T19:53:33Z")
I’m not really concerned about the plastic gun prototype. I’m slightly concerned about what the technology that can make a plastic gun might make possible ten years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/3 "2013-09-01T20:30:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not really concerned about the plastic gun prototype. I’m slightly concerned about what the technology that can make a plastic gun might make possible ten years from now. Give me a chunk of that steel, and I can machine it into a gun barrel. With tools that shitloads of people have. In their garage. Like me. And it could have been done 100 years ago. The question is, if my metal leg won’t show up on your ‘metal detector’ (or at least, you can’t tell the difference between a metal leg, and a gun, and wave me off when you see my brass belt buckle), why are you bothering me? Why am I being bothered by such utterly useless ‘security’? What purpose does it serve? This is really a rant about idiotic and useless Security Theater. Oh, yeah. Just like the thread _title._ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/4 "2013-09-01T20:50:13Z")
It ain’t _my_ fault the subject of 3D printing is inherently more interesting than yet another rant about security theater. Yeah, yeah, yeah, bureaucratic bullshit, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/5 "2013-09-01T20:51:39Z")
Can I ask, OP, what the fuck are you talking about? You work somewhere where there’s a metal detector. Got it. It sets off the metal detector. Got it. What does that have to do with plastic guns or forging your leg into a gun? Do you work in a metal shop that’s protected by magnetometers and X-ray machines? Are the security people frisking you for plastic guns? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/6 "2013-09-01T20:53:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not really concerned about the plastic gun prototype. I’m slightly concerned about what the technology that can make a plastic gun might make possible ten years from now. Absolutely nothing that isn’t possible right now. I fail to understand the _agita_ over 3D printing. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/7 "2013-09-01T21:09:08Z")
Today: some guy with a machine shop can have a gun Tomorrow: anybody with a 3-d printer can have a gun. There’s a threshold level of competence required for responsible gun ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/8 "2013-09-01T21:11:49Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Absolutely nothing that isn’t possible right now. I fail to understand the _agita_ over 3D printing. I don’t know if me being “slightly concerned” crosses the line into _agita_, but I can picture 3D printing (or the 2023 version thereof) being used to make components that now require some skill, i.e. the timer mechanisms for improvised explosive devices or mailbombs. The number of people killed will still be trivial compared to the casualties from drunk driving or straight-up domestic murder. As an example, the devices used by Ted Kaczynski showed gradual technical refinement as well as individual quirks that might have identified him (if his bother had not). I picture someone who simply downloads and prints components, getting a generic bomb that is lethal from the start. Not likely, I admit. It’s more of a technical curiosity to me than a serious concern, I guess. Anyway, security guards are bugging the OP. Rawr! Fazzbazzle! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/9 "2013-09-01T21:12:56Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Today: some guy with a machine shop can have a gun > Tomorrow: anybody with a 3-d printer can have a gun. Another “tomorrow” was that anyone with a color printer or copier would be able to turn out his/her own money. I don’t see 3D print tech getting to the point where anyone can make anything better than a zip gun, and we aren’t exactly hiding in our homes because of junk-built guns now. > [@](#): > > There’s a threshold level of competence required for responsible gun ownership. In theory, you’re right. In practice… thanks for the laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/10 "2013-09-01T21:46:45Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Another “tomorrow” was that anyone with a color printer or copier would be able to turn out his/her own money. And guess what, they pretty much [can](http://www.secretservice.gov/money_technologies.shtml). > [@](#): > > The Secret Service has noted that many of today’s counterfeiters have moved from the traditional method of offset printing, which has its own set of required skills, to computer-generated counterfeiting. Today’s counterfeiter is able to produce counterfeit currency with basic computer training and skills afforded by trial and error, and public education. Counterfeit passing statistics are likely to increase because of several factors: these instruments of production are more readily available, the capabilities of these machines continue to improve and the techniques are more readily understood by an increasingly larger segment of the population, including those with criminal intent. > > \ > > Advanced technology in the office machine copier/printer industry has made it possible for even unskilled operators to produce high-resolution color reproductions. The widespread availability of such copiers/printers has increased the incidence of the manufacturing and passing of office machine notes. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/11 "2013-09-01T21:54:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And guess what, they pretty much [can](http://www.secretservice.gov/money_technologies.shtml). At about the level of zip guns. There is no electronic print technology that produces truly convincing bills - ones that would pass unnoticed by a reasonably experienced teller or even a suspicious convenience store clerk. Back in the day, I found some of the best counterfeit bills being circulated (engraved plate work) by touch alone, counting stacks. It’s not hard and while there are a few exotic papers available that closely resemble bill stock, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. The best printers today can do no better, they just don’t require an engraving expert to get to “almost good enough.” I have no expectation that “printed guns” will ever be different. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/12 "2013-09-01T21:58:44Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Today: some guy with a machine shop can have a gun > Tomorrow: anybody with a 3-d printer can have a gun. > > There’s a threshold level of competence required for responsible gun ownership. Are you saying people who want to own guns need to be able to use power tools responsibly? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/13 "2013-09-01T22:15:56Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > At about the level of zip guns. There is no electronic print technology that produces truly convincing bills - ones that would pass unnoticed by a reasonably experienced teller or even a suspicious convenience store clerk. > > Back in the day, I found some of the best counterfeit bills being circulated (engraved plate work) by touch alone, counting stacks. It’s not hard and while there are a few exotic papers available that closely resemble bill stock, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. The best printers today can do no better, they just don’t require an engraving expert to get to “almost good enough.” > > I have no expectation that “printed guns” will ever be different. They won’t be. As with a photocopied or laser-printed fake banknote, the scale will be small, somebody printing off a $20 and buying cigarettes with them, or something, not a large-scale effort to undermine the nation’s currency or even to support organized crime. Printed guns will be similarly one-off, made for single uses and not to equip a freemen militia or anything similarly grandiose. I figure sooner or later, somebody will kill somebody with a home-printed gun while under the impression that the weapon is untraceable and overlooking banal evidence like witnesses and fingerprints. There won’t be a subsequent crime wave with printed weapons, but there will be an awful lot of scare-mongering about it. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/14 "2013-09-01T23:43:49Z")
I’m more worried about the bombs, like Hangover part III. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/15 "2013-09-02T00:29:38Z")
Clearly, the o.p. should stop smoking. Problem solved. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/16 "2013-09-02T00:49:34Z")
Or machine that metal leg into a bong and start smoking something else. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/17 "2013-09-02T00:55:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Can I ask, OP, what the fuck are you talking about? You work somewhere where there’s a metal detector. Got it. It sets off the metal detector. Got it. > > What does that have to do with plastic guns or forging your leg into a gun? Do you work in a metal shop that’s protected by magnetometers and X-ray machines? Are the security people frisking you for plastic guns? Nope. Took my mother to the ER. They had ‘security’ which required you to take everything out of your pockets, get your Driver’s License scanned, wear this sticker, go through the metal detector, sign over your first-born child, etc. etc. I told them I would beep because of my metal leg. They said ‘No, that stuff doesn’t set it off’. Yes, yes it did. It’s been setting metal detectors off for the past year and a half since it was planted in my leg. But if they’re right, _IF_ they’re right, then why can’t terrorists make their guns out of that kind of steel? Why is plastic, made with 3D printers such a security threat, when any gun barrel you make out of it will only be Coke can sized, and still only be good for .22LR, but if they’re right about the surgical stainless steel alloy that wound up in my leg isn’t a problem? Seriously. Give me a 2 cm diameter chunk of that stuff and two weeks (it _can_ be done faster, but I’m a lazy sonofabitch) and I can make you a gun barrel with chamber for .45 ACP or .44 mag. And it won’t blow up after the third shot. The ‘security’ is ridiculous, even on it’s face. It’s even _more_ ridiculous when the ‘security’ people are telling me that my steel leg doesn’t matter, and waving me through, just because I told them about it. Why are they even bothering us over shit they can do nothing at all about? It’s the ‘security theater’ that pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/18 "2013-09-02T01:15:37Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Today: some guy with a machine shop can have a gun Nope, doesn’t require a machine shop. I don’t have one, but if you want a gun, I can make you one. Not that I _will_, but, hey, whatever… > [@](#): > > Tomorrow: anybody with a 3-d printer can have a gun. > > There’s a threshold level of competence required for responsible gun ownership. Not really, no. And the ‘Security Theater’ we are being subjected to doesn’t protect us from even _that_ non-existent threat, since it doesn’t really exist. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/19 "2013-09-02T03:35:44Z")
The stainless rod in your leg, there’s nothing you can do. As to going out too often to smoke there is. Quit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750/20 "2013-09-02T09:09:49Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Nope. Took my mother to the ER. They had ‘security’ which required you to take everything out of your pockets, get your Driver’s License scanned, wear this sticker, go through the metal detector, sign over your first-born child, etc. etc. I told them I would beep because of my metal leg. They said ‘No, that stuff doesn’t set it off’. Yes, yes it did. It’s been setting metal detectors off for the past year and a half since it was planted in my leg. But if they’re right, _IF_ they’re right, then why can’t terrorists make their guns out of that kind of steel? Why is plastic, made with 3D printers such a security threat, when any gun barrel you make out of it will only be Coke can sized, and still only be good for .22LR, but if they’re right about the surgical stainless steel alloy that wound up in my leg isn’t a problem? Seriously. Give me a 2 cm diameter chunk of that stuff and two weeks (it _can_ be done faster, but I’m a lazy sonofabitch) and I can make you a gun barrel with chamber for .45 ACP or .44 mag. And it won’t blow up after the third shot. > > The ‘security’ is ridiculous, even on it’s face. It’s even _more_ ridiculous when the ‘security’ people are telling me that my steel leg doesn’t matter, and waving me through, just because I told them about it. Why are they even bothering us over shit they can do nothing at all about? It’s the ‘security theater’ that pisses me off. ISTM that you’re conflating lax hospital security that seems more for show than anything else, with the possibility that someday soon plastic guns might actually be effective, and be smuggle-able even into places where they take security quite seriously, and rightly so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/security-theater-or-omg-he-might-have-a-plastic-gun/667750.md?page=2)