# See, this is what happens when politicians go to military funerals uninvited. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054 "2005-07-25T14:48:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/41 "2005-07-26T14:39:44Z")
I don’t agree that this is an example of what happens when uninvited politicians attend funerals. It is what happens when anyone, politician or human, doesn’t know enough to make their remarks suitable to the situtation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/42 "2005-07-26T14:44:16Z")
We still don’t know exactly what she said, and it wasn’t like she made a public announcement or anything. It sounds like something she said to one person. I reiterate my earlier question. Would it change anything if it turns out that she was _asked_ whether she supports the war? If so, is it really inappropriate to say that it is not the business of the state government to support (or not support) the war? I really think it sounds like this family had a chip on its shoulder already and saw an opprtunity to grandstand. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/43 "2005-07-26T14:57:11Z")
And I allowed for that in my OP. But then that becomes a political problem for the administration she serves, doesn’t it? If she made remarks that were inappropriate, she deserves the grilling. If she made remarks that were merely misunderstood, she really doesn’t deserve it, but got it anyway. It’s a lose-lose situation here. All this because she was in a place she really should have avoided, IMHO. And all of this holds regardless of the political stance of the politician attending the funeral. Unless he has a personal connection to the soldier being buried, I don’t think there’s any concern, honor or sympathy that can be shown that can’t be shown by a proclamation, a memorial service, a wreath laying, a card sent through the mail, or some other more appropriate means than a personal appearance at a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/44 "2005-07-26T15:04:47Z")
Somehow, I don’t think either the family or the OP{ would have ben outraged if some Republican chickenhawk had gone to the funeral and made pro-war comments. (And since when do people need invitations to go to funerals? I’ve never heard of that before.) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/45 "2005-07-26T15:04:56Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Do you make it a point to discuss your politics with the family who may or may not agree with you? Do you make it a point to tell them something that, depending upon your particular leanings, either implies that their dead son was a stooge or a martyr without knowing? Nope. And further upon reflection, I have never even seen an invitation for a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/46 "2005-07-26T15:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I really think it sounds like this family had a chip on its shoulder already and saw an opprtunity to grandstand. In fairness, despite all the general statements about how “the family” feels, every statement I have seen has been uttered by a single woman (with a history of protesting Democrat or Left-wing activity). Knoll may have been every bit as insensitive as depicted or Goodrich may be making hay, but we still have no serious evidence regarding the exact events. (Goodrich, for example, has complained about Knoll talking to reporters after the funeral, yet no paper or TV or radio station has produced a transcript or a recording Knoll making inappropriate comments.) I see no reason to bash “the family” any more than a reason to bash Knoll until someone provides some evidence that Goodrich is not spinning some fairly innocuous remarks for her own agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/47 "2005-07-26T15:13:28Z")
Why would press need to speak with her at the funeral in the first place? The funeral isn’t about her, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/48 "2005-07-26T15:25:58Z")
If a government official is at a public event, why shouldn’t the press speak to her? Even if you think it’s an atrocity for the press to ask her a question, how is that HER fault? That’s a perfect example of just looking for something to be outraged about. Speaking of political exploitation, should I bring up the spectacle of GWB using the backdrop of 9/11 in campaign commercials? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/49 "2005-07-26T15:39:49Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why would press need to speak with her at the funeral in the first place? The funeral isn’t about her, is it? The press does what the press wants to do. Certainly they don’t _have_ to ask her any questions and certainly if they show up with a mike, her appropriate response is to say something about showing respect for the fallen followed by a declaration that she cannot take any more questions. Given that we have no statements in evidence, this might be exactly what happened. (Or Goodrich may have invented the claim that Knoll talked to any reporters. Or Knoll may have stupidly done exactly what Goodrich accused her of doing.) Given the number of “local dignitaries” (up to the state level) whom I have seen at the funerals of Ohio soldiers and Marines who have died in Iraq without any flap such as the one concerning Ms. Knoll, I really think the “they should all stay away” approach is unnecessary overkill. I would guess that most families are appreciative when someone from the government (at any level) makes some token gesture of respect. Certainly, the visitor should never call attention to their own presence and, if Ms. Goodrich’s claims are truew, Ms. Knoll was a blithering idiot, but the actions of one idiot hardly demonstrates that an entire group of people should never show their respect at a funeral. My local representative (whom I disliked and for whom I would never have voted) attended my Dad’s funeral. He was quite circumspect and it never occurred to me to be upset that he had come–I appreciated that he made an effort to show respect for a member of the community. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/50 "2005-07-26T16:08:17Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Don’t make assumptions. My wife is a practicing Catholic. My oldest daughter is is starting at a Catholic school in september. I don’t get my panties in a wad about people telling her that God exists. Her mother does it all the time. > > I don’t see what it has to do with the funeral. Are you saying that it would have been appropriate to give a rah rah statement in support of the war? > > Not the place for _what_? > > I haven’t even seen an _allegation_, much less _proof_, that she gave a personal opinion on the war. Giving the state’s position is not the same thing (and I haven’t seen context for that alleged statement, but what would you say if you found out she was _asked_ for an opinion and that she tried to give a non-committal statement similar to what the governor said, and misinterpreted by the aunt?) > > Standing respectfully at the back pretty much sounds like what she _did_ do. It sounds like the family was just looking for any excuse to play the victims. > > I also don’t see what’s so goddamn horrible about giving somebody a business card. > > It sounds like these people already had a political axe to grind and were just gettng off on being “outraged.” How can youir wife be a functioning Catholic if you aren’t? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/51 "2005-07-26T16:27:15Z")
> [@](#): > > How can youir wife be a functioning Catholic if you aren’t? Because the RCC has not insisted that Catholics marry only Catholics for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/52 "2005-07-26T17:49:52Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Knoll may have been every bit as insensitive as depicted or Goodrich may be making hay, but we still have no serious evidence regarding the exact events. More importantly, the thesis of the OP is that, in direct relation to the argument “that Bush or other politicians should attend military funerals,” this “proves that politicians should not [attend military funerals], unless they know the servicemember involved or are invited.” Even if this incident is true, it would in no way prove this highly partisan OP: all it would prove is that people should keep partisan bickering out of funerals. The OP injects partisan bickering into this funeral, and thereby undermines itself. Despite **Mr. Moto’s** eloquent argument to the contrary: > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > :rolleyes: Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/53 "2005-07-26T18:09:06Z")
Nope. I tried to be fair in the OP, because I honestly didn’t know at the time whether Knoll caused an incident or one of her political opponents was creating a scene. For that matter, I still don’t know this one way or the other. Neverless, she shouldn’t have been there to either create a scene or give her opponent an opportunity to create one. A funeral isn’t the place for that. Better you should behave like the rest of us behave, and go to the funerals of friends and family. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/54 "2005-07-26T18:18:22Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Neverless, she shouldn’t have been there to either create a scene or give her opponent an opportunity to create one. A funeral isn’t the place for that. I disagree. She should have been there and not politicized the event. The aunt should have been there and not politicized the event. One of them failed to live up to their obligations. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/55 "2005-07-26T18:21:01Z")
She shouldn’t have gone at all without first making sure she’d be accepted there. Then she should have made sure her presence wouldn’t be disruptive. Even at that, if what she said was misunderstood, that’s her own fault - any career pol knows how not to annoy people. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/56 "2005-07-26T18:27:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > She shouldn’t have gone at all without first making sure she’d be accepted there. Possibly so. Jesse Helms attended my great-uncle’s funeral without prior notification (my great-uncle was a very conservative state senator), and nobody including myself objected, although afterward we made some juvenile gallows-humor jokes. I think it’d be pretty gauche to violate normal funeral protocol by harassing the bereaved family looking for an invitation. My understanding is that it’s pretty routine for government officials to show up at funerals, and the response is overwhelmingly nonexistent. This one incident does not prove that normal protocol must be upended–nor does it speak at all, one way or the other, as to what Bush should do. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/57 "2005-07-26T18:46:19Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > I would think a family who’s son died in a war don’t want to hear about lack of support, at least not at the time they’re burying him. You do realize that the war is what caused his death, don’t you? I’d say lack of support for the war amounts to support for him still being alive. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/58 "2005-07-26T18:53:27Z")
Perhaps. But it can also be seen as opining that their son died for a worthless cause. Not the sort of thing most folks need to hear at a funeral, and something best left unvoiced. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/59 "2005-07-26T19:37:36Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > This thread is indicative of a larger issue. Everyone is on a hair trigger about the war in Iraq. Many people on each side eagerly await a perceived misstep from the other side so they can swoop in and score points. Ahh, a refreshing bit of truth. For my 2 cents, regardless of whether she did or didn’t do what she may or may not have done, she offended people at a funeral. I would think the family should be equally outraged that now their tragic loss is big news and being used by both sides of the political spectrum to illustrate a point that frankly has no bearing on this situation. She should apologize, not because she was right or wrong but because she caused further pain, where it wasn’t needed. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054/60 "2005-07-27T21:04:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > “If there’s anything I can do to help you, _please_ don’t hesitate to call.” I was raised Jewish so correct me here, someone. Is it, or is it **not** a fairly serious and dignified moment when Communion is being given/taken??? It’s a painful spin to say that she was offering her help and why slam her, when she was doing it A) In church, B) AT their son’s funeral and C) DURING Communion. Rough, to cut someone that incredibly insensitive so much slack. Let’s just look at it another way, shall we? Someone’s son dies in an awful car wreck. An attorney approaches the family just after they have been given the bad news, in the hospital. He/She hands over a card and says, “If there’s anything I can do to help you, _please_ don’t hesitate to call.” The woman is an ambulance chaser who happens to be on the public tit. -shrug- It doesn’t make her a noble woman. It just makes her a crass inapproprate cruel opportunist who is Lt. Governor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/see-this-is-what-happens-when-politicians-go-to-military-funerals-uninvited/314054.md?page=4)