# Seeing the Phantom Menace again for the first time in 14 years. My thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406 "2017-08-12T03:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/181 "2024-05-21T15:36:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Say what you want about the prequels, but at least Lucas had a complete story planned. But not for the originals, which are the greatest success. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/182 "2024-05-21T15:46:33Z")
I guess I’d say I’m one of the few that is torn on the Last Jedi. I think about half of it is the best since the original trilogy (killing the “big bad”, Rey being a nobody, Kylo’s path) and half being terrible (plot continuity with TFA, humor being tonally off, everything on Canto Bight). I was ok with TFA at the time because I thought it was basically the team reassuring fans that they were competent, but in retrospect it was just completely unimaginative. ROS is possibly the worst out of the 9 though. I don’t remember being angry coming out of a theater before. I do find the push at redeeming the prequels to be really weird so I agree with this thread a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/183 "2024-05-21T15:49:24Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > ROS is possibly the worst out of the 9 though. I don’t remember being angry coming out of a theater before. For a second there I thought you meant Revenge of the Sith, and we might have had to throw hands. For as much hate as the prequels got on release a new batch of Star Wars movies meant a lot of reactors watching the originals and prequels for the first time and overwhelmingly they seem to think Revenge of the Sith is the best movie of the first six. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/184 "2024-05-21T15:56:56Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > For a second there I thought you meant Revenge of the Sith, and we might have had to throw hands. _Rise of Skywalker_… even its initials are derivative. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/185 "2024-05-21T15:58:20Z")
Really? I find that hard to believe, but I didn’t/don’t follow the fandom that much. ESB is so clearly the best. Revenge of the Sith isn’t good either, but it’s heads and shoulders above Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Rise of Skywalker. Personal rankings are probably: 5, 4, 6, 8, 3, 7, 1, 2, 9. 1, 2, and 9 being roughly equal and irredeemable garbage. Rogue 1 would slot in after 6. Haven’t seen Solo. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/186 "2024-05-21T16:01:42Z")
I’ve always felt Revenge of the Sith was about on the same level of quality as Return, but one was the sequel to the best Star Wars movie, and one was a sequel to the (at the time) worst Star Wars movie, which gave RotS a bit of a bump. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/187 "2024-05-21T16:27:22Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Personal rankings are probably: 5, 4, 6, 8, 3, 7, 1, 2, 9. 1, 2, and 9 being roughly equal and irredeemable garbage. Rogue 1 would slot in after 6. Haven’t seen Solo. I’m very close to your rankings. I might mix up 8, 3, and 7 depending on my mood, but they are all good movies with flaws. And you’re right on 1, 2, and 9. TPM had more good parts than 2, but also more painfully bad parts. I might even put Rogue One ahead of 6. Solo fits in with the garbage level. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/188 "2024-05-21T16:29:52Z")
My ranking now would be: 1. Return of the Jedi 2. Empire Strikes Back 3. Force Awakens 4. New Hope 5. Revenge of the Sith 6. Last Jedi :gap: 1. Attack of the Clones 2. Rise of Skywalker 3. Phantom Menace Those last three are all trash, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/189 "2024-05-21T20:40:28Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > “They’re sending Jedis!” > > “Fuck it we’re toast. Just surrender now!” Yep. Mind you like I said - my overall rating was “meh- a few great parts- too many ecch”. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/190 "2024-05-21T21:06:40Z")
As far as Phantom Menace, I didn’t like it, but I can’t say it was a dumpster fire. C- sounds right to me. The biggest problem I have with it is that it deprived us of the movie I really wanted to see back then (I was in my early 20s at the time), one featuring Darth Vader at his peak. We got a small dose of that at the end of _Rogue One_, but sadly I think such a movie is now out of the question, if for no other reason than James Earl Jones’s advanced age means he’s not up for it. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > My ranking now would be: > > 1. Return of the Jedi > 2. Empire Strikes Back > 3. Force Awakens > 4. New Hope > 5. Revenge of the Sith > 6. Last Jedi > > :gap: > > 1. Attack of the Clones > 2. Rise of Skywalker > 3. Phantom Menace > > Those last three are all trash, for the most part. I’d put Revenge of the Sith and Force Awakens at just a notch below the original trilogy. Then a large gap, then the first two prequels and last two sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/191 "2024-05-21T21:11:05Z")
When I first saw Revenge of the Sith, I remember thinking, “George took two practice movies to re-teach himself how to make a movie.” Shame the two practice movies were his Star Wars movies. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/192 "2024-05-21T21:27:21Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Anyone else do a re-watch lately? I haven’t, but looking at your original post from 2017 I’m astonished by how close your good and bad list was to what I remember from back in 1999. What sticks out to me most is the idea that seemingly nobody could tell Lucas no. Nobody was willing to tell him how annoying Jar Jar really was. The pod race was great but it went on too long, they were trying some new things with all the digital special effects, the whole Trade Federation politics was boring, but the lightsaber duel at the end was pretty cool. And John Williams was great of course. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/193 "2024-05-21T21:28:44Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > We got a small dose of that at the end of _Rogue One_, but sadly I think such a movie is now out of the question, if for no other reason than James Earl Jones’s advanced age means he’s not up for it. They have another voice actor these days to play Vader using some AI technology with Jones’ voice. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/194 "2024-05-28T15:43:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > They have another voice actor these days to play Vader using some AI technology with Jones’ voice. I’m not even sure there is another voice actor involved, I thought it was just AI replicating Jones voice. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/195 "2024-05-28T16:17:59Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m not even sure there is another voice actor involved, I thought it was just AI replicating Jones voice This is what they did for the Obi-Wan show. Jones recorded nothing for the show, but it was his voice and he was credited. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/196 "2024-05-31T14:31:29Z")
I’ve always thought that the prequels should have started with Anakin already as a teenager. That would have allowed him to have already developed some dark traits caused by his resentment at being a slave. Stuff that Anakin himself thinks is a desire for justice but is really a thirst for revenge on the privileged classes. It would have tied in well with Yoda saying later in TESB that Luke was too old to begin training. And Palpatine could totally have used it to twist Anakin: “You _deserve_ to be a master but the greedy, elite Jedi council won’t give a little power to a poor little slave boy. They are keeping the power for themselves and someone should force them to share. It’s only fair…” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/197 "2024-05-31T14:44:13Z")
I watched this fairly recently with my young son. I agree with all of the reasons to hate the film, but my child liked it and since it was for him George did his job. It was a missed opportunity, a chance to rekindle magic in the tired souls of adults who were fans as kids and it failed but I’d argue that is the fans fault. It’s like being pissed the Transformers films are 2 dimensional, that was the show, just because we have CGI a plot isn’t going to improve. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/198 "2024-05-31T15:30:13Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I’ve always thought that the prequels should have started with Anakin already as a teenager. That would have allowed him to have already developed some dark traits caused by his resentment at being a slave. Stuff that Anakin himself thinks is a desire for justice but is really a thirst for revenge on the privileged classes. It would have tied in well with Yoda saying later in TESB that Luke was too old to begin training. And Palpatine could totally have used it to twist Anakin: “You _deserve_ to be a master but the greedy, elite Jedi council won’t give a little power to a poor little slave boy. They are keeping the power for themselves and someone should force them to share. It’s only fair…” No joke. Episode II could just be titled Episode I. No need for Anakin’s childhood. Just quick 'splainer lines about how they find him is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/199 "2024-06-03T13:09:10Z")
Well, some background on Tatooine would have been useful to show hints of his darker side. Stuff like the pretty girls laughing at him and putting him down for being a slave. And his mom getting mistreated for her lowly status. Then a bit of him talking to Kenobi about how he’d make it so that it was fair and poor people wouldn’t get stepped on all the time. “When I get some real power, those snobs will be sorry…” muttered to himself after Obi-Wan leaves. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/200 "2024-06-06T18:06:51Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > No joke. Episode II could just be titled Episode I. No need for Anakin’s childhood. Just quick 'splainer lines about how they find him is enough. Topher Grace’s (yes, the same one) [85-minute Prequel Cut](https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/scifi/topher-grace-reedits-star-wars.html) apparently starts right at the Darth Maul Duel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406.md?page=11)