# Seeing the Phantom Menace again for the first time in 14 years. My thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 12, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406 "2017-08-12T03:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/161 "2017-08-22T21:08:26Z")
SW is part of my core being, and has been since I was 6 and saw ANH on HBO for the first time back in 82. I was a prequel apologist when they came out. “They weren’t that bad.” “They are for today’s kids, not jaded adults” “The cheesy parts are on par with the cheesy parts of the OT.” etc. But in the past year or so, I’ve watched all 7 (not including R1) with my kids, and it’s clear the prequels don’t hold up well at all. Particularly TPM. I think I clung to forcing myself into liking them just to avoid the crushing disappointment. And it wasn’t just me. My four year old got bored whenever there wasn’t action (and that’s HUGE stretches of 1 and 2). My ten year old, who enjoyed 4-7 a lot, pretty much tuned out during 1-3 and played on her tablet. The eight year old loved Padme and all her pretty outfits, and that’s about it. (However, they all laughed at the fart and poop jokes with Jar Jar on tatooine, and to a lesser extent, his antics during the Gungan battle.) And my wife had to stop herself from laughing and/or vomiting during the “romance” parts. It wasn’t until maybe the latter half of ROTS that everyone started getting interested again. So my reassessment: TPM is garbage, other than the final battle. The 4-front battle is a lot of fun, even with Anakin’s nonsense, and Maul’s lack of character. But as I’ve heard elsewhere, the whole movie would have made a lot more sense if Anakin started as a teenager. A ten-year-old building and racing hot-rods is ludicrous. At 19, it becomes conceivable. Padme could have been Portman’s actual age or even a bit older, instead of a creepy 14. We could have had Christiansen (or someone better) for the whole trilogy and not changed actors, and he could have grown into the role more (as he did somewhat in 3) and by the time he falls, it would have felt less like teen angst and more like an adult fall from grace. AOTC has the wretched romance which brings everything to a halt. It also has a bunch of boring politics talk that _could_ have been interesting, but fails to be so. Likewise Obiwan’s investigation bits which, other than the scene with Yoda and the younglings, are sleep-inducing. But when that’s not happening, the movie is pretty good. The opening car chase has a lot of fun to it, and if the banter hadn’t been botched so much could have cemented the friendship between Anakin and Obiwan as well as their characters. The Kamino parts are excellent, including both the tense verbal confrontation with Jango and the great physical confrontation in the rain. The last 40 minutes or so, once the Geonosis arena scene starts are pretty great other than a few quibbles. ROTS is actually not bad for the most part. Other than some janky CGI to make Christopher Lee do a flip, the opening is great. The whole coming together of Palpatine’s plans, culminating in him becoming Emperor was pretty well done. The Order 66 scene almost made me cry, even after all these years. Obiwan riding a random lizard was stupid, and both Grievous and the post-lightning Emperor could have been executed better. Also, there’s Vader’s infamous “NO” and Padme’s perfunctory death. But no stops were pulled out for the final lightsaber duel, and it’s good enough to excuse a lot of faults. The movie is not as good as any of the OT, or TFA. But on the whole, a solid entry, and clearly the best of the three. I dearly wish someone had been around to tell Lucas “No” sometimes. And I dream that maybe one day someone will go back and do the prequels right, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/162 "2017-08-26T16:47:46Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > SW is part of my core being, and has been since I was 6 and saw ANH on HBO for the first time back in 82. I was a prequel apologist when they came out. “They weren’t that bad.” “They are for today’s kids, not jaded adults” “The cheesy parts are on par with the cheesy parts of the OT.” etc. But in the past year or so, I’ve watched all 7 (not including R1) with my kids, and it’s clear the prequels don’t hold up well at all. Particularly TPM. I think I clung to forcing myself into liking them just to avoid the crushing disappointment. > > And it wasn’t just me. My four year old got bored whenever there wasn’t action (and that’s HUGE stretches of 1 and 2). My ten year old, who enjoyed 4-7 a lot, pretty much tuned out during 1-3 and played on her tablet. The eight year old loved Padme and all her pretty outfits, and that’s about it. (However, they all laughed at the fart and poop jokes with Jar Jar on tatooine, and to a lesser extent, his antics during the Gungan battle.) And my wife had to stop herself from laughing and/or vomiting during the “romance” parts. It wasn’t until maybe the latter half of ROTS that everyone started getting interested again. > > So my reassessment: TPM is garbage, other than the final battle. The 4-front battle is a lot of fun, even with Anakin’s nonsense, and Maul’s lack of character. But as I’ve heard elsewhere, the whole movie would have made a lot more sense if Anakin started as a teenager. A ten-year-old building and racing hot-rods is ludicrous. At 19, it becomes conceivable. Padme could have been Portman’s actual age or even a bit older, instead of a creepy 14. We could have had Christiansen (or someone better) for the whole trilogy and not changed actors, and he could have grown into the role more (as he did somewhat in 3) and by the time he falls, it would have felt less like teen angst and more like an adult fall from grace. > > AOTC has the wretched romance which brings everything to a halt. It also has a bunch of boring politics talk that _could_ have been interesting, but fails to be so. Likewise Obiwan’s investigation bits which, other than the scene with Yoda and the younglings, are sleep-inducing. But when that’s not happening, the movie is pretty good. The opening car chase has a lot of fun to it, and if the banter hadn’t been botched so much could have cemented the friendship between Anakin and Obiwan as well as their characters. The Kamino parts are excellent, including both the tense verbal confrontation with Jango and the great physical confrontation in the rain. The last 40 minutes or so, once the Geonosis arena scene starts are pretty great other than a few quibbles. > > ROTS is actually not bad for the most part. Other than some janky CGI to make Christopher Lee do a flip, the opening is great. The whole coming together of Palpatine’s plans, culminating in him becoming Emperor was pretty well done. The Order 66 scene almost made me cry, even after all these years. Obiwan riding a random lizard was stupid, and both Grievous and the post-lightning Emperor could have been executed better. Also, there’s Vader’s infamous “NO” and Padme’s perfunctory death. But no stops were pulled out for the final lightsaber duel, and it’s good enough to excuse a lot of faults. The movie is not as good as any of the OT, or TFA. But on the whole, a solid entry, and clearly the best of the three. > > I dearly wish someone had been around to tell Lucas “No” sometimes. And I dream that maybe one day someone will go back and do the prequels right, but I doubt it. Why not R1? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/163 "2017-08-28T00:36:32Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Why not R1? Just don’t think they’re ready for the bleakness yet. Maybe in a year or two. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/164 "2024-05-19T19:54:18Z")
BUMP It’s 25 years old today and I stand by my review from 7 years ago. The movie has its moments, but is pretty terrible overall. A nicer 45-60 minute edit would produce something decent. I heard it was back in theaters recently. Did anyone go? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/165 "2024-05-19T20:43:48Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I had hoped to find good in Phantom Menace, Three great parts- 1. At the start they show just how powerful a Jedi can be- sending just two Jedi to stop a war- kindas like the old “one Riot? =One Texas Ranger” thing. 2. The wonderful sea monsters. 3. Obi-Wan catching Jar-Jars tongue Anakin was annoying and too much of the comedy relief- Jar-Jar. But it was fun to watch. I’d give it a C- and the ratings bear me out. The Star Wars hater fanyboys annoy me. > [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > -Doing production work on Land Before Time > -Doing production work on Howard the Duck Skipping those would have been a good idea… > [@GreedySmurf](#): > > the simple bald truth is that TPM is a shitty movie. 53% on Rotten Tomatoes= a “meh” film, not shitty, not crappy, just “meh”. Not bad, not good. This is exactly what I mean- “betrayed” so the film must be “shitty”. Subjectively, your opinion is you opinion, but objectively, the overall rating shows- “not shitty” but not very good either. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > ell, let’s compare them to other SF movies made around the time of the OT: _Bicentennial man, Thirteenth Floor, Wild Wild West, Virus, The Timeshifters,Deep Blue sea, Thrill seekers_- all 1999 Blade Runner was made almost a decade earlier- 1982- same with ET, Alien 1979. 1998 SF films- _Deep Impact, Armageddon, Sphere, Lost in Space, Deep Rising, Soldier_ and yet another Godzilla remake. Other than Galaxy Quest- TPM was the best SF film made in those two years. The only better SF film made in 1999 was Galaxy Quest, which was a comedy/parody. But really fun. > [@Aeschines](#): > > I will say also that I think The Force Awakens is utter garbage 93% On Rotten Tomatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/166 "2024-05-19T21:40:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Aeschines](#): > > > > I will say also that I think The Force Awakens is utter garbage > > 93% On Rotten Tomatoes. The Sequel Trilogy is not loved by many. TFA did OK _at the time_ in terms of both critics and fans, but the subsequent two movies were really, really bad. They had not come out yet at the time I made my comment in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/167 "2024-05-19T23:17:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I heard it was back in theaters recently. Did anyone go? I haven’t watched it since 25 years ago and will never watch it again. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/168 "2024-05-20T00:11:13Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > The Sequel Trilogy is not loved by many. Yes, 93% means 7% didn’t like it- and that is _many_ viewers/reviewers- I mean something like 900Million people watched it, so 7%of 900M is “many”. . But the vast majority did like it. Now, with TFM a small majority of reviewers didnt like it- it’s close. So yeah, you can say “most people didnt like TFM”. And I voted “meh- has moments” for TPM, so you could say I didnt care for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/169 "2024-05-20T00:35:18Z")
For the record, I thought The Force Awakens was as good as the original three movies. Sadly, that trilogy just lost its way. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/170 "2024-05-20T00:39:55Z")
I saw _A New Hope_ first run theater - one of my buddies made a model for it (which they didnt use, but still), and it was groundbreaking and _amazing_ to us. But that was then (1977) and this is now. Then I would have rated it _“Five stars Wowie, wish I could rate it six!”_ Now- I still enjoy the film, but it doesnt have the zing it had so long ago. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/171 "2024-05-20T00:42:32Z")
Speaking as a big Star Wars fan, and someone who’s had extensive conversations with my fellow fans about the Sequels: _The Last Jedi_ seems to be extremely polarizing. I disliked it, for a whole bunch of reasons, but I have friends who adored it. I know few people who have moderate/intermediate views on it. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/172 "2024-05-20T15:27:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, 93% means 7% didn’t like it- and that is _many_ viewers/reviewers- I mean something like 900Million people watched it, so 7%of 900M is “many”. . But the vast majority did like it. I think that, once the trilogies are complete, they should be seen as wholes. It’s true that TFA was quite popular when it came out, but the IMDb scores for the sequel trilogy are currently as follows: TFA: 7.8 (pretty high) TLJ: 6.9 (not great for a SW pic) RoS: 6.4 (pretty low) If anything, the above are inflated by fanboys, and there was controversy about IMDb protecting the ratings of the latter two movies when they came out. The prequels are as follows: TPM: 6.4 AotC: 6.6 RotS: 7.6 (not bad!) But compare all of this to the OT: ANH: 8.6 ESB: 8.7 RotJ: 8.3 So like… no comparison. Further, the OT ratings were not inflated by fanboys (or trashed by haters), since those movies came out long before IMDb was online. I think the prequels have risen in stature since the sequels have come out, and there are now plenty of defenders of them online. The logic seems to be that, if the sequels totally suck, and we agree that the prequels are better than the sequels (they are), then the prequels must be great! Yeah… the prequels and sequels all suck, but I will concede that there is a kind of Lucasian innocence and camp to the prequels that is missing in the sequels (for the record, I have only seen most of TFA, but I know the stories well of the latter two movies and have watched some scenes; I saw all of the prequels and OT in the movies theater when they came out). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/173 "2024-05-20T15:54:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I’d give it a C- and the ratings bear me out. A whole bunch of subjective opinions does not equal one objective truth. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/174 "2024-05-20T21:00:53Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > TFA: 7.8 (pretty high) > TLJ: 6.9 (not great for a SW pic) > RoS: 6.4 (pretty low) > > If anything, the above are inflated by fanboys, In general, Star War fanboys- as evidenced in this thread- _despise_ the three prequels. > [@Miller](#): > > A whole bunch of subjective opinions does not equal one objective truth. They do when converted to dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/175 "2024-05-20T21:06:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They do when converted to dollars. You really want to make the “profit = quality” argument? Because by that standard, Meatloaf is one of the greatest musicians of all time. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/176 "2024-05-20T21:26:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Aeschines](#): > > > > TFA: 7.8 (pretty high) > > TLJ: 6.9 (not great for a SW pic) > > RoS: 6.4 (pretty low) > > > > If anything, the above are inflated by fanboys, > > In general, Star War fanboys- as evidenced in this thread- _despise_ the three prequels. Those are the ratings for the _sequels._ I would say that there are different SW fan subtypes: 1. Likes OT only; hates the prequels and sequels (I fit this but am not a massive SW fan). 2. Favorable to SW overall but prefers the prequels to the sequels and sometimes the OT itself (usually people who watched the prequels as kids in the theater). 3. Likes OT and fanboys for the sequels; unfavorable or indifferent toward prequels. I think it’s somewhat uncommon for some to absolutely love both the sequels and the prequels. I think that makes sense, since they are kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum with the OT in the middle (prequels: childish, campy; sequels: edgy, dark–or at least attempting to be so). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/177 "2024-05-20T21:41:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Speaking as a big Star Wars fan, and someone who’s had extensive conversations with my fellow fans about the Sequels: _The Last Jedi_ seems to be extremely polarizing. I disliked it, for a whole bunch of reasons, but I have friends who adored it. I know few people who have moderate/intermediate views on it. Yep, that’s me. My Star Wars fan friends, with whom I mostly see eye-to-eye, all hate it; I love it, and I think it’s the best SW film since _Empire_ (although _Rogue One_ comes close). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/178 "2024-05-21T14:38:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yep, that’s me. My Star Wars fan friends, with whom I mostly see eye-to-eye, all hate it; I love it, and I think it’s the best SW film since _Empire_ (although _Rogue One_ comes close). I liked Last Jedi, but have several notes for it. One would have been “what the heck do they do for episode 9?”, a question they clearly didn’t know either. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/179 "2024-05-21T14:41:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > At the start they show just how powerful a Jedi can be- sending just two Jedi to stop a war- kindas like the old “one Riot? =One Texas Ranger” thing. I do like that part. “They’re sending Jedis!” “Fuck it we’re toast. Just surrender now!” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406/180 "2024-05-21T14:43:31Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I liked Last Jedi, but have several notes for it. One would have been “what the heck do they do for episode 9?”, a question they clearly didn’t know either. I’m sure Rian Johnson would have thought of something if they’d let him. The man’s a brilliant, original filmmaker. But yes, I agree that the ultimate failure of the sequel trilogy was due to a lack of an overall planned narrative. For that, I put all of the blame in the lap of Kathleen Kennedy. Say what you want about the prequels, but at least Lucas had a complete story planned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seeing-the-phantom-menace-again-for-the-first-time-in-14-years-my-thoughts/793406.md?page=10)