The force is magic, sometimes magic is unreliable especially when Destiny is involved, that’s pretty standard in fantasy. Having unreliable magic is really different than adding a major character interaction to someone’s life, then having them completely forget it for no good reason. Having C3PO built by Vader doesn’t actually add anything to the story and introduces the ‘why didn’t he remember’ problem to the original series, it’s simply a bad idea no matter how many pictures of protocol droids you link.
The only other Jedi that we really get to know are Yoda and Mace Windu; I wouldn’t say either of them is cold and stale. Yoda is still doing the philosopher-muppet thing, and you know Mace could go eight different kinds of badass on a moment’s notice.
I was trying to remember if Vader ever encountered 3PO in the original trilogy. When Han is frozen, isn’t 3PO a spare parts catalog in a box?
As for recognizing Obi-Wan but not Luke, maybe the force is like smelling something. You can remember when you’ve smelled something before, like the guy who cut your legs off, but Vader had never met Luke.
I wish it were the case that, wrt the jedi in Epi 1 and slavery, it’s clear that there’s intended tension there, that we know that George Lucas thought long and hard about why the jedi would allow that, and how that illuminates their weaknesses, etc, etc, etc.
However, it really comes off as (1) It is known that there are jedi, and (2) George Lucas decided that Annakin was a slave, (3) end of story.
I would have loved a scene where Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are discussing why the jedi order doesn’t just use its combined power to end slavery everywhere, and Qui-Gon is making reasonable arguments, but you can tell he doesn’t really believe them, or something, and it’s an early hint that the jedi knights are not the galaxy-spanning force for good that fans of the original trilogy would certainly have assumed.
I think that C3PO, R2D2, etc, are product lines, not individual names. So there could be a large number of them. You wouldn’t see a Ford Mustang and say “Hey, it’s Ford Mustang. Do you remember me?” even if you did once reassemble one from junkyard scrap.
From my memory of my adolescent Star Wars nerdery, “R2” and “3PO” were the product lines, while the “C” and “D2” were individual identifiers. Hence, “R2 unit”, and presumably 3PO unit.
Darth Vader DID sense Luke, He just didn’t know it was Luke.
All he feels when he senses Obi Wan is a tremor that he recognizes as the same as when he was in his presence. He had never met Luke, so he does can’t place the exact feeling, but he DOES feel it.
The obvious answer is he wasn’t her brother or Vader’s daughter until they threw out the plans for the final trilogy and combined them into the last movie. This is the problem of making stuff up as you go.
What I wanted to address was one of the things that drives me nuts. Leia didn’t French Luke. She closed-mouth kissed him to piss off Han. There IS no Love Triangle in Star Wars between Han, Luke and Leia. She has virtually no interaction with Luke the entire trilogy. She either says a few perfunctory lines when they are running away from the Stormtroopers, or she talks about Han (“Your friend is quite the mercenary.” etc. . She insults and berates Han directly, though, which is RomCom flirting. In Empire, she has ZERO lines with Luke other than “It’s a trap!” and “I’ll be back.” The famous kiss is specifically to piss off Han and is not at all romantic. In Jedi, they have their first conversation in the entire trilogy, and it’s ABOUT them being siblings!
In the famous Empire kissing scene, they actually cut out Luke about to confess his love for her (I think it makes the radio drama) and try to kiss her before being cock-blocked by C3P0. They specifically cut this out because Luke has a different destiny than being with Leia. He is to be a Jedi. Han has no story purpose other than to be Leia’s love interest. They are thrown together by circumstance (he has to take her from Hoth to the rebel base). If they set up a potential Luke-Leia romance, we would be resenting Han moving in on Leia when he’s supposed to be a sympathetic character. We know some thought was put into that because Lucas LOVES callbacks. Later, Han and Leia have a moment and are about to kiss when C3P0 cock-blocks them, creating what would have been a rather funny running gag. For them to throw out a funny running gag only makes sense when we realize they purposefully deactivated the Luke and Leia romance they hinted at in the first movie ('the story of a Boy, a Girl and a Universe’).
I missed including the proof that Vader did sense Luke.
A Ford Mustang? No way!
A Ford Prefect, maybe. 
Well, there’s a phrase you don’t see every day.
[quote=“caligulathegod, post:87, topic:793406”]
I missed including the proof that Vader did sense Luke.
[/QUOTE]He senses this yes, but you don’t think he’d be able to sense his name is Skywalker? The Sith even in the original trilogy are adept at reading minds.
When you have to handwave something away by saying “it’s magic/it’s force/it’s unreliable”, it means it’s a plot hole.
Let’s be honest here. The original trilogy itself suffers from many of the same flaws the prequels did. The difference is the originals are executed better, which covers up these flaws and plotholes. ANH has just as cringey dialogue as any of the prequels, and the dialogue in Empire is pretty geeky too. But it’s simply executed better.
That’s the flaw of the prequels. The execution.
But to claim they’re the worst films ever as one person said is extreme hyperbole. They’re B movies in a series of A movies.
Well, yes, if Luke walks around thinking “my name is Skywalker,” then I’d expect Vader could pick that up. I figure Vader and the rest are great at picking up the latest surface thought, which I figure is what happens when Vader just yammers on for a while and eventually says something that gets Luke thinking about Leia but doesn’t hit the jackpot until then. And I figure that, yes, if Vader had asked Luke his name in ANH, and Luke had then thought about it in front of Vader while stammering out a refusal to answer, Vader would’ve gotten it then.
But I also figure Luke doesn’t spend his days with a song stuck in his head about how awesome it is to be LUUUUUUKE SKYYYYWALKER!!! Dee Da Dee DA!!!
That’s why I included the lines about Vader sensing Obi-Wan. He didn’t sense that it was Obi-Wan, just that he felt a tremor in the Force and the last time he felt it was in the presence of his old master. In the later films, the Force becomes Magical as required by lazy plotting. The Force is far more vague than people give it credit. Not to mention, it grew in scope as needed by the plot.
There should have been a love triangle between Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan. The vision that ultimately leads Anakin into falling to the dark side isn’t Padme dying, it’s Padme cheating on him with his best friend, Obi-Wan. Except, his vision doesn’t actually happen - it almost does, but Padme and Obi-Wan both pull back before anything happens between them. Because, of course, Anakin only saw one possible future. But under the influence of his “friend” Palpatine, Anakin doesn’t realize this, and thinks he’s been betrayed by the two people in the galaxy he’s closest to.
That’s a good line. For great lines, watch the video here. Stay to the end. Trust me.
You know, if the original trilogy was swashbuckling, I wonder if the prequels would have worked better if they’d played up more of a Greek tragedy angle; you know, that thing where someone tries to prevent a prophecy and winds up setting it in motion. Anakin’s actions at the end of RotS never really made any sense to me. He’s supposed to be motivated by his love for Amidala, but then goes out and does exactly the things she begged him not to. Obi-Wan stows away aboard her spaceship and Anakin sees it as some massive betrayal. Palpatine promises he can save Amidala, but when she dies anyway it only makes him more loyal to Palpatine.
As a wise dog once said, it just don’t add up.
Ironic you say that. Lucas originally intended for there to be an Obi-Wan - Padme - Anakin love triangle. In the original script for TPM, Obi-Wan was the main protagonist (no Jinn except in a brief moment later in the film), Jar-Jar Binks spoke normally; Anakin was a kind, very profound child, almost like a young Buddha, with a dark edge to him, and it was made clear Padme had a crush on Obi-Wan, which made him uncomfortable.
When Anakin says “You are with him!” in Episode III to Padme, that’s a remnant of this abandoned plotline. Also, one plotline which wasn’t abandoned is that Obi-Wan makes Anakin feel insecure.
Where did you hear this?
http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/thebeginning.html
and in the “Secret History of Star Wars” book.
That draft sounds better than the movie they made.
That is so much better than the movie that got made, it’s amazing that they could fail so badly from such a good starting point.
I should say that back in 1998, I got a bootleg copy of an earlier draft of the script that ended up being legit, but was quite different from the summary above. It was the May 1997 script, specifically.
Moriarty got the script as well on Aintitcool(back when they looked for leaks) and reviewed it as well.
I know it is crazy, but Jar Jar spoke normal in the earlier drafts and was actually not that bad of a character. He was of normal intelligence and not annoying. I agree with Moriarty’s comments.
Overall, the earlier scripts appear to have been a lot better than what they filmed. Lucas needed script-writing help from professionals. They could have fine-tuned his script and made sure a better movie was being made.