# Seems Lucas didn't only screw up the prequels... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134 "2010-08-13T08:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/1 "2010-08-13T08:02:19Z")
Looks like Jabba the Lucas dipped his kiddy fiddling fingers into ‘Return’ too, and deprived us of what could have potentially been a far more emotive and satisfying conclusion to the original trilogy (the only SW trilogy really) than the saccharine, sanitized teddy bear picnic, Playschool crap we ended up with - > **[Return of the Jedi Gets a New Ending - IGN](https://www.ign.com/articles/2010/08/13/return-of-the-jedi-gets-a-new-ending)** > > Han Solo? Dead. Luke Skywalker? Walking off into the sunset. > > At least that's how Return of the Jedi would have ended for Gary Kurtz, George Lucas' former collaborator on the first two Star Wars films. How this guy hasn’t been topped already by some disgruntled Star Wars nerd is beyond me. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/2 "2010-08-13T08:19:08Z")
Somewhere on the Internet there’s a message board where people argue over whether “The Wizard of Oz” would have been cooler if only Dorothy had died at the end, or if her little dog had bit it too. Making something darker doesn’t always make it better. There’s a time for gritty realism, and a time for upbeat escapism. And really, of all the ways that “Return of the Jedi” might be improved, people thinking killing Han Solo halfway through is the one Lucas should have tried? ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/3 "2010-08-13T08:54:16Z")
I wanted Luke to die, preferably screaming in pain. I still do. I want an episode 7 that is basically a 4 hour torture/snuff film featuring Luke as the victim… … I think that’s because I’m too young to have seen the originals when they were still cool (and not just retro cool), I might have been too old and jaded when I first saw them; the character annoys me to no end, there’s only so much naivete and teenage angst I can bare to watch in one movie. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/4 "2010-08-13T09:03:42Z")
Yeah, that would have been pretty awful. I’m not entirely sure why you think that would have been better. I could see an argument for killing Lando during the assault on the Death Star, as was also scripted at one point, but offing Han would be a pretty tremendous tonal misstep. Also, this? > [@](#): > > Looks like Jabba the Lucas dipped his kiddy fiddling fingers… Is incredibly fucking tacky. The guy made some movies that weren’t as good as you wanted them to be. Accusing him of child molestation because of it, even in jest, is a pretty shitty thing to do. Generally speaking, I do not understand the Star Wars fans who hate Lucas. Yeah, he lost his touch with the newest films, and produced some spectacularly crappy movies because of it. It’s aggravating to look at them and think of what they could have been. But that said, if it weren’t for him, you wouldn’t have _any_ Star Wars films at all, and you’d have to settle for being Trekkies. That alone is reason enough to thank your lucky stars for George Lucas. ---
**Author:** ![snoopygal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@snoopygal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoopygal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/5 "2010-08-13T09:18:47Z")
Killing Han would have been an awful idea. It would make the whole rescue sequence stupid on repeat views, and the whole point of Star Wars is repeat views. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/6 "2010-08-13T09:19:57Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > How this guy hasn’t been topped already by some disgruntled Star Wars nerd is beyond me. :mad: Like [Patton Oswalt](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDCjIjsZp_Y)? ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/7 "2010-08-13T09:35:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Generally speaking, I do not understand the Star Wars fans who hate Lucas. Yeah, he lost his touch with the newest films, and produced some spectacularly crappy movies because of it. It’s aggravating to look at them and think of what they could have been. Agreed. The prequels suck, absolutely. I also do not hate George Lucas. Well, at least not for foisting the SW prequels on an unsuspecting public. For giving us Indy IV, though? Now, _that_ might just be deserving of some ire. > [@Miller](#): > > But that said, if it weren’t for him, you wouldn’t have _any_ Star Wars films at all, and you’d have to settle for being Trekkies. That alone is reason enough to thank your lucky stars for George Lucas. By and large, the **Star Trek** films are better than the **Star Wars** films. But they’re also two completely different types of entertainments, tonally speaking. Again, I maintain that the most perfect films Lucas has ever conceived are the first three **Indiana Jones** movies (especially **Raiders of the Lost Ark** ). ('Course, it might’ve helped that he invited his good friend Steve to play along as well.) ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/8 "2010-08-13T09:57:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, that would have been pretty awful. I’m not entirely sure why you think that would have been better. I could see an argument for killing Lando during the assault on the Death Star, as was also scripted at one point, but offing Han would be a pretty tremendous tonal misstep. Killing off a stalwart character would have given gravity to the story. No unlike if Sam had have taken the Ring and sacrificed himself to destroy it. Rather than its destruction being merely incidental of the tug of war between Frodo and Golem - the former of which is then celebrated like the veritable second coming, even though it was patently clear that it was his friend who was the real hero. ‘_The good ended happily, the bad unhappily. That’s what fiction means._’ Fiction underpinned by reality is what makes good fiction. Hence why the SW prequels were so utterly asinine. > [@](#): > > The guy made some movies that weren’t as good as you wanted them to be. Accusing him of child molestation because of it, even in jest, is a pretty shitty thing to do. [Not](http://www.redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html) and [really](http://www.redlettermedia.com/clones.html)… :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Generally speaking, I do not understand the Star Wars fans who hate Lucas. Generally this indicates one isn’t a fan of the series and/or classic action-adventure cinema period and likely someone who considers Lucas’ ‘[nuking of the refrigerator](http://www.peoplevsgeorge.com/)’ with the Indiana series a forward step in the filmic genre. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/9 "2010-08-13T10:37:40Z")
As a 13 year old when ROTJ was released, I don’t think I would’ve enjoyed your preferred version very much. You seem to want to turn what is essentially a modern fairy tale, into a dystopian Blade Runner-esque misery-fest. As much as the prequels may have been disappointing fort the 35 year old fans who were ten when the original trilogy was released, Lucas absolutely nailed it for the current batch of ten year olds. That’s what he is good at - tapping into what entertains children. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/10 "2010-08-13T10:55:50Z")
> [@snoopygal](#): > > Killing Han would have been an awful idea. It would make the whole rescue sequence stupid on repeat views Not if he dies making that ensuing raid against the Empire a success. ---
**Author:** ![snoopygal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@snoopygal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoopygal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/11 "2010-08-13T10:56:38Z")
I also find the hatred for Lucas a nauseatingly adolescent trend. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/12 "2010-08-13T11:23:17Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > Yeah, that would have been pretty awful. I’m not entirely sure why you think that would have been better. I could see an argument for killing Lando during the assault on the Death Star, as was also scripted at one point, but offing Han would be a pretty tremendous tonal misstep. > > Killing off a stalwart character would have given gravity to the story. No unlike if Sam had have taken the Ring and sacrificed himself to destroy it. Rather than its destruction being merely incidental of the tug of war between Frodo and Golem - the former of which is then celebrated like the veritable second coming, even though it was patently clear that it was his friend who was the real hero. > > ‘_The good ended happily, the bad unhappily. That’s what fiction means._’ > > Fiction underpinned by reality is what makes good fiction. Hence why the SW prequels were so utterly asinine. > [Not](http://www.redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html) and [really](http://www.redlettermedia.com/clones.html)… :rolleyes: > > > [@](#): > > > > Generally speaking, I do not understand the Star Wars fans who hate Lucas. > > Generally this indicates one isn’t a fan of the series and/or classic action-adventure cinema period and likely someone who considers Lucas’ ‘[nuking of the refrigerator](http://www.peoplevsgeorge.com/)’ with the Indiana series a forward step in the filmic genre. Simmer down, now. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/13 "2010-08-13T11:25:47Z")
> [@snoopygal](#): > > I also find the hatred for Lucas a nauseatingly adolescent trend. Oh, _no_. We’ve not seen _any_ of this “adolescent attitude” you speak of on display in _this_ thread. Pshaw! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/14 "2010-08-13T11:33:45Z")
> [@GHO57](#): > > there’s only so much naivete and teenage angst I can bare to watch in one movie. ( **UB** holds fingers in an approximation of looking at a movie screen) OOOH! We could re-cut the orginal triliogy to be more relevant to modern audiences, we could have an _EMO_ Luke Skywalker…and he skin can sparkle! Should be a walk in the park for the CGI dept. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/15 "2010-08-13T11:42:50Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > As much as the prequels may have been disappointing fort the 35 year old fans who were ten when the original trilogy was released, Lucas absolutely nailed it for the current batch of ten year olds. That’s what he is good at - tapping into what entertains children. There is a great difference between a culturally significant masterpiece and something that sells a lot of tickets. As Neal Stephenson [points out](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17stephenson.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1), the prequels were not at all memorable compared to the original three movies. Star Wars did not just sell a lot of tickets; it became a huge part of sci-fi culture and geek culture. The characters in it are easily recognizable. There is something special about the original three movies that the prequels didn’t have. The mere fact that the prequels sold really well does not change this. The prequels did not have the same sort of magnitude, beauty, power, and significance that the original movies did. And there’s nothing egocentric about saying this–especially if you were, like me (born 1989) a little boy when you watched both the original movies _and_ the prequels. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/16 "2010-08-13T11:49:13Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > As Neal Stephenson [points out](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17stephenson.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1), the prequels were not at all memorable compared to the original three movies. Star Wars did not just sell a lot of tickets; it became a huge part of sci-fi culture and geek culture. The characters in it are easily recognizable. In 1977 nothing like it had ever been seen before. In 1999 we were suffering from a glut of similarly spectacular dazzlers. The cultural impact is impossible to re-create or sustain, so the comparison is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/17 "2010-08-13T11:58:26Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > > [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > > > As Neal Stephenson [points out](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17stephenson.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1), the prequels were not at all memorable compared to the original three movies. Star Wars did not just sell a lot of tickets; it became a huge part of sci-fi culture and geek culture. The characters in it are easily recognizable. > > In 1977 nothing like it had ever been seen before. In 1999 we were suffering from a glut of similarly spectacular dazzlers. The cultural impact is impossible to re-create or sustain, so the comparison is meaningless. How is the comparison meaningless? You just compared the two! Could you phrase your response differently? Maybe you think that I require equally significant films from Lucas as prequels? I don’t. But I think that the prequels are poorer even by intemporal standards of quality. Their plots could have been memorable and beautiful even if they didn’t change the landscape the way the original movies did. ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/18 "2010-08-13T12:06:01Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > > [@GHO57](#): > > > > there’s only so much naivete and teenage angst I can bare to watch in one movie. > > ( **UB** holds fingers in an approximation of looking at a movie screen) > > OOOH! We could re-cut the orginal triliogy to be more relevant to modern audiences, we could have an _EMO_ Luke Skywalker…and he skin can sparkle! Should be a walk in the park for the CGI dept. Emo… you mean like make him have abandonment issues? Perhaps add a little self confidence problem to the mix… throw in some romantic awkwardness? Sudden displays of strong emotion from a character that’s otherwise brooding and about expressive as a tree. Yea… all they’d need to do is add mascara and sparkles. 10 minutes tops. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/19 "2010-08-13T12:15:34Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > > [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > > > As Neal Stephenson [points out](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17stephenson.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1), the prequels were not at all memorable compared to the original three movies. Star Wars did not just sell a lot of tickets; it became a huge part of sci-fi culture and geek culture. The characters in it are easily recognizable. > > In 1977 nothing like it had ever been seen before. In 1999 we were suffering from a glut of similarly spectacular dazzlers. The cultural impact is impossible to re-create or sustain, so the comparison is meaningless. Rubbish. 1999 also saw the release of the Matrix which, merits of the film aside, had an undeniable cultural influence. I agree that the job of making the Star Wars prequels was very difficult and there was very little chance of them ever living up the the first films, but what Lucas produced was drivel. He didn’t even get close. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/20 "2010-08-13T13:06:31Z")
> [@snoopygal](#): > > I also find the hatred for Lucas a nauseatingly adolescent trend. Only when it comes to the original three movies. Since then, he really has bungled Star Wars. It’s better when he’s not involved. I know people like to bash his involvement in the first movies, too, but at least they got made and are of good quality. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134.md?page=2)