# Seems Lucas didn't only screw up the prequels... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 13, 2010, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134 "2010-08-13T08:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/21 "2010-08-13T13:45:27Z")
My main problem with VI was the Ewoks, a blatant merchandising ploy and irredeemable plot failure. Killing off Han would not have fixed that. I wouldn’t have minded seeing Luke die near the end, in an echo of Obi-Wan’s sacrifice, especially if that helped turn Vader. A certain amount of Lucas-hating is justified. Yes, he created an amazing thing, but he also ruined it, seemingly on purpose, or perhaps to make a buck. I would feel the same way if Tolkien had written a follow-up where the elves made toys for Santa, or if Homer Simpson had gotten sober and became a model dad around season 9, or if the final episode of Seinfeld had…never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/22 "2010-08-13T14:03:02Z")
Sign me up in the camp that states: Meh. George Lucas doesn’t give a damn what you think, he’s mopping the sweat off his chins with $100,000 bills. This _sense of entitlement_ of certain consumers is well outlined here: > **[Entitlement issues...](https://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html)** > > I am home. My dog is happy to see me. The world is a good place and I am behind on work because American Airlines doesn't have proper power ... The point being: Define success any way you want, state he’s ‘raped your childhood memories and defiled the good name of the original series in the name of consumerism’. Great, so what? Move on. The man is responsible for: 1. kickstarting popular sci-fi 2. movie tie-in sales 3. re-popularizing the multi-part serial 4. Lucasarts game studios 5. Industrial Light and Magic 6. a pretty good Multi-season cartoon JUST looking at ticket sales, the StarWars franchise has sold 4.2 billion in sales. Somehow, I think he can gird is loins and muddle through people not being happy with the way he’s treated his property, a MUCH LARGER population has voted with it’s pocketbook. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/23 "2010-08-13T14:06:25Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > we could have an _EMO_ Luke Skywalker… You mean he isn’t already? If you search on a certain well-known video sharing site, you’ll find cut scenes that introduced Luke’s buddy Biggs - you know, the guy we meet about thirty seconds before he gets vaporized by a Tie fighter? Now dropping _those_ was a mistake. It makes Biggs’ death actually mean something, and it makes Luke look a bit better - like a worried and conflicted young man rather than just a whiney teenaged brat. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/24 "2010-08-13T14:09:14Z")
After further google-fu, looks like the franchise is easily worth $20 billion, with Lucas having about $3.5 billion in his VERY THICK WALLET. ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/25 "2010-08-13T14:36:35Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > As a 13 year old when ROTJ was released, I don’t think I would’ve enjoyed your preferred version very much. You seem to want to turn what is essentially a modern fairy tale, into **a dystopian Blade Runner-esque misery-fest**. Hyperbole becomes thee. > [@](#): > > As much as the prequels may have been disappointing fort the 35 year old fans who were ten when the original trilogy was released, Lucas absolutely nailed it for the current batch of ten year olds. That’s what he is good at - tapping into what entertains children. [Nein.](http://www.redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html) > [@snoopygal](#): > > I also find the hatred for Lucas a nauseatingly adolescent trend. If one wasn’t brought up on the films in question and they didn’t [invariably] influence you in your formative years, or you simply do not care (or align yourself with the Trekkie Side!), it’s understandable that you would think this kind of seeming infantile ire directed at the movie-maker in question confounding. > [@GuanoLad](#): > > In 1977 nothing like it had ever been seen before. In 1999 we were suffering from a glut of similarly spectacular dazzlers. The cultural impact is impossible to re-create or sustain, so the comparison is meaningless. I agree that the likes of The Matrix and LotR are hard acts to follow. But, without knowing the exact production/filming schedule, I think the SW prequels were all but complete before the aforementioned films hit. Moreover, the movies all surfaced within a half-decade period so this idea of ‘satiation’ doesn’t hold water. The ‘CG OD’ excuse is far too convenient a dismissal to explain away the garbage that Lucas barfed up at the turn of the century. When you delve deeper into the workings of _all_ these Star Wars movies and how they came about, you soon start to see a pattern of Lucas buffoonery regarding thus. For example, something as fundamental as the character designs were largely nothing like what Han and Luke eventually turned out as. Lucas envisaged some ridiculous alien generica as the the these two protagonists that were barely even humanoid! > [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > […]JUST looking at ticket sales, the StarWars franchise has sold 4.2 billion in sales. And how many Big Macs have McDonalds sold? Does this make them healthy? > [@MTCicero](#): > > Simmer down, now. Quenched. Just watch the links. > [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > After further google-fu, looks like the franchise is easily worth $20 billion, with Lucas having about $3.5 billion in his VERY THICK WALLET. Of which he’s giving away 1.5 reportedly. How largess of him… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![snoopygal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@snoopygal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoopygal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/26 "2010-08-13T14:50:40Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > If one wasn’t brought up on the films in question and they didn’t [invariably] influence you in your formative years, or you simply do not care (or align yourself with the Trekkie Side!), it’s understandable that you would think this kind of seeming infantile ire directed at the movie-maker in question confounding. When do you think I grew up? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/27 "2010-08-13T14:50:50Z")
It doesn’t make it good, bad healthy, unhealthy, or largess…it just is. And he’s done more to influence people than I’ll ever be able to do. Whether you chalk it up as a positive or negative is up to you. ETA: I’m not certain largess is the word you’re looking for. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/28 "2010-08-13T14:59:39Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > Hyperbole becomes thee. Pot? Meet kettle. > [@](#): > > But, without knowing the exact production/filming schedule, I think the SW prequels were all but complete before the aforementioned films hit. “I can’t really can’t be bothered with researching details, but I’ll still feel free to speculate on something which I’ve got the facts completely wrong about.” ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/29 "2010-08-13T15:05:36Z")
> [@snoopygal](#): > > When do you think I grew up? Should I start at 1 and work my way up? :rolleyes: What does that even mean?! Are you taking the piss, Old Father Time? 😕 > [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > It doesn’t make it good, bad healthy, unhealthy, or largess…it just is. > > And _ **he’s** _ done more to influence people than I’ll ever be able to do. Whether you chalk it up as a positive or negative is up to you. > > ETA: I’m not certain largess is the word you’re looking for. :dubious: Given the prequels are the only thing he reasonably had full creative control over, are you sure your plaudits aren’t misdirected? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![snoopygal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@snoopygal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoopygal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/30 "2010-08-13T15:08:24Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > > [@snoopygal](#): > > > > When do you think I grew up? > > Should I start at 1 and work my way up? :rolleyes: > > What does that even mean?! Are you taking the piss, Old Father Time? 😕 You seemed to be under the impression that I wasn’t ‘brought up’ on the films. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/31 "2010-08-13T15:16:34Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > > [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > > > As Neal Stephenson [points out](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17stephenson.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1), the prequels were not at all memorable compared to the original three movies. Star Wars did not just sell a lot of tickets; it became a huge part of sci-fi culture and geek culture. The characters in it are easily recognizable. > > In 1977 nothing like it had ever been seen before. In 1999 we were suffering from a glut of similarly spectacular dazzlers. The cultural impact is impossible to re-create or sustain, so the comparison is meaningless. The main characters of the original movie are much more archetypal than most of those that followed. The look and presentation of _Star Wars_ may have seemed like nothing before it, but a large part of its success is how traditional–how very _old_–the underlying form of the story is. Lucas had read Joseph Campbell in college and “rediscovered” the Hero’s Journey while working on the first script in 1975. ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/32 "2010-08-13T15:18:17Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > “I can’t really can’t be bothered with researching details, but I’ll still feel free to speculate on something which I’ve got the facts completely wrong about.” Just out yourself as the poorly dissembled Trekkie you are already and I will promptly disabuse you of the misconception that I’m some Star Wars nerd that knows or is inclined to know every minutiae of detail associated with said films. Okies? 😉 **NB:** Using one’s noggin will arrive at the logical conclusion regarding the chronology of the respective film releases cited. No real need for it to be transcribed in the appendices of King James edition. \*\* gestures for conciliatory hug\* \* 🙂 > [@snoopygal](#): > > > [@Sablicious](#): > > > > Should I start at 1 and work my way up? :rolleyes: > > > > What does that even mean?! Are you taking the piss, Old Father Time? 😕 > > You seemed to be under the impression that I wasn’t ‘brought up’ on the films. Merely existing at the time the movies were/are circulating doesn’t necessarily imply a liking or even appreciation of the subject matter in question. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/33 "2010-08-13T15:20:34Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > Given the prequels are the only thing he reasonably had full creative control over, are you sure your plaudits aren’t misdirected? :dubious: Given the vinegar of your rebuttal, you seem to be missing the point that I’m not arguing with you. I’m stating the guy has had a larger impact on more people than anyone in this thread that’s bitching about his raping their childhood. If you look at the bottom line: Whether you like what he’s done or not, you can’t debate that he’s done a lot with it. And my 7 year old kids really dug their McDonald’s Happy Meal with Lego Star Wars droids collectibles in them. Condemn society if you’d like, it doesn’t change what is. ---
**Author:** ![snoopygal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b487fb/32.png) [@snoopygal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoopygal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/34 "2010-08-13T15:22:35Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > > [@snoopygal](#): > > > > You seemed to be under the impression that I wasn’t ‘brought up’ on the films. > > Merely existing at the time the movies were/are circulating doesn’t necessarily imply a liking or even appreciation of the subject matter in question. What makes you think I ‘merely existed’ at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/35 "2010-08-13T15:26:07Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > > [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > > > “I can’t really can’t be bothered with researching details, but I’ll still feel free to speculate on something which I’ve got the facts completely wrong about.” > > Just out yourself as the poorly dissembled Trekkie you are already and I will promptly disabuse you of the misconception that I’m some Star Wars nerd that knows or is inclined to know every minutiae of detail associated with said films. Okies? 😉 Gotcha. You can’t get some easy facts straight (like you know–the _ **year** _ a movie was released), and your defense is ad hominem attacks. Good to know who we’re dealing with here. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/36 "2010-08-13T15:26:58Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > By and large, the **Star Trek** films are better than the **Star Wars** films. But they’re also two completely different types of entertainments, tonally speaking. Again, I maintain that the most perfect films Lucas has ever conceived are the first three **Indiana Jones** movies (especially **Raiders of the Lost Ark** ). ('Course, it might’ve helped that he invited his good friend Steve to play along as well.) **Which** _Star Treks_ are you talking about? If you’re talking about the series-within-a-series of II, III, & IV, I agree. But TMP is ponderous, VI is incredibly stupid, and VI deeply flawed (for all its ambition). And I write that as someone who adores TREK but is so-so on SW. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/37 "2010-08-13T16:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, he lost his touch with the newest films, and produced some spectacularly crappy movies because of it. Yet all three prequel films got “fresh” ratings from reviewers, as per “Rotten Tomatoes.” (62% for Ep I, 66 % for Ep 2, 80% for Ep 3) They’re only crappy to those who feel it doesn’t live up to or fit in with the orginials. Taken on their own, they’re at least passable. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/38 "2010-08-13T19:22:41Z")
The best ending: The rebels discover that Ewok blood corrodes critical components of the Empire’s hardware, and so to defeat the empire they have to round up all the Ewoks and fire them at the Empire ships. Finally, they’re down to the last Ewok. They load the screaming Ewok in a firing tube, and Luke says, “Han, do you think we’ll manage it? There’s only one shot left.” Han says, “Who cares? We managed to kill all those freaking annoying Ewoks, didn’t we? I made up the crap about Ewok blood anyway.” They fire the Ewok, watch him splat, and sail away to become pirates. Audience cheers. Roll credits. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/39 "2010-08-13T20:00:46Z")
I think there’s a minor problems with RotJ, but I don’t think that killing off Han would have helped. I imagine that could have found a way to make it heroic and memorable, but it wouldn’t have helped fix the biggest problem, which was the Ewoks. I’d read somewhere that it was originally going to take place around the Wookie planet, but George Lucas opted for the Ewoks for merchandising. I’m not sure if it’s true, or just someone wishing it was true, but I think it would have helped a lot. I kind of get the added point of the small, cute, technologically inferior Ewoks beating the Empire seems like some kind of victory for the little guy, but all it really does is make the Empire and the Rebels look incompetent. I think if they’d faced off against a race much more on their terms, perhaps the Wookies (or some other race) were enslaved, or just hadn’t quite built up the will to fight back until the Rebels arrive. And since it was brought up, I don’t think the prequels are as bad as most others think either. I think there’s a lot of nostalgia involved in comparing them to the originals and I do think that the fact that the originals were lightyears ahead of anything of the time, which combined with 20 years of fond memories, nothing could have done as well. Sure, Matrix and LotR came out about the same time, and while they were cultural phenomena, they didn’t revolutionize the industry the way the originals did. Moreso, imagine if the Matrix sequels hadn’t come out when they did, but came out now or even 5-10 years from now. They’d be hated even more. I do feel that there was some very poor dialogue, poor acting, and poor directing, but I think the general story actually works pretty well. Other than that, I think most of the mistakes were made in Episode 1, and they just never fully recovered from (eg, midichlorians, Jar Jar, the kid playing Anakin was just awful, etc); although, I do think the complete lack of chemistry between Anakin and Padme did put a damper on it all too. I think a little bit of a rewrite of the first movie, some more work on the dialogue, and making the romance more believable probably would have made enough of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134/40 "2010-08-13T20:21:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, this? > > > [@](#): > > > > Looks like Jabba the Lucas dipped his kiddy fiddling fingers… > > Is incredibly fucking tacky. The guy made some movies that weren’t as good as you wanted them to be. Accusing him of child molestation because of it, even in jest, is a pretty shitty thing to do. For what it’s worth, **Miller** , I read this comment as referring to Lucas’ infantilization of the story arc in every movie since _The Empire Strikes Back_ - i.e., the teddy bear jamboree and Jar Jar Binks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-lucas-didnt-only-screw-up-the-prequels/550134.md?page=3)