# Seems on time/early people are rude even when people \*aren't\* late (LONG) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673 "2003-02-08T06:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/241 "2003-02-13T16:28:07Z")
Okay. I think I understand. For example, you would rather go to a bookstore (for example) and browse around until I showed up, then we’d go to lunch. Is that correct? If I’m interpreting this correctly, you and other posters may be arguing at cross purposes here. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/242 "2003-02-13T16:46:49Z")
If there is no objective merit to being on time, then why is there objective merit to any promise? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/243 "2003-02-13T16:48:06Z")
…to **keeping** any promise. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/244 "2003-02-13T16:52:47Z")
I think you are interpreting that correctly, but I don’t think we are talking at cross purposes, because they seem to think that the number of situations available for this sort of treatment are so small that I must end up lying to people about commitments all the time. Again, this is just illustrative, just one solution I have found. It can’t always work, I have things to do, too. But I’ve yet to find a situation that can’t be worked around, except time-sensitive things like movies, for which I can just bite the bullet—we all have our crosses to bear 😛 As long as it doesn’t happen all the time there is no problem for me. Getting to this point, though, where I can just toss solutions out, does require knowing the person better than just an acquaintance. I need to know what they do, what they like, and so on. Until that time I can’t just willy nilly make suggestions about what to do, and so I try and get as broad of a cushion on time as they will stand and agree to that. I’m not always late, so it takes more than a few meetings for anyone to notice anything. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/245 "2003-02-13T16:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > **If there is no objective merit to being on time, then why is there objective merit to any promise?** I do not understand this question. What makes you think there is objective merit to any promise? What makes you think my separation from caring about time necessarily impacts my caring about promises? What, in short, makes you ask this question? What is the question? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/246 "2003-02-13T16:58:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*That proves how stupid you truly are, and I am sorry to hear that. Lean in closely, put your ear here, near my mouth… here… [sub]a little closer…[/sub] > > _ **I DON’T THINK ANYONE IS AT FAULT FOR ANYTHING YOU FUCKING STUPID IDIOT.** _ \*\* So, I’ve been called - A motherfucker (you quoted me in the OP) A fucking ninney. A Fucking stupid idiot. Yet you think it’s people like me that are rude :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > _From Erislover_ > And why the fuck do you suppose we agreed to a time? Hmm? Can you guess who’s idea that was to make time so fucking important? In fact why I am so pissed in the first place? I you don’t think anyone is at fault, then you shouldn’t make statements like this one. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/247 "2003-02-13T17:03:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*I do not understand this question. What makes you think there is objective merit to any promise? What makes you think my separation from caring about time necessarily impacts my caring about promises? What, in short, makes you ask this question? What is the question? \*\* You just said that what you care about, or rather don’t care about, is punctuality, not time itself. (“This thread is motivated by the insistance that there is some objective merit to punctuality”…). Punctuality is what happens when a promise to be on time is kept, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![1000monkeys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/7cd45c/32.png) [@1000monkeys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1000monkeys)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/248 "2003-02-13T17:08:19Z")
**erislover** you are my hero. have you also noticed that the terminally punctual, more than anything else, are so God-damned proud of having arrived 3 minutes early? my theory is that it comes down to management. A) from a manager’s standpoint it is much easier to track the punctuality of your charges than their actual productivity over an 8 hour day. thus: mary: here at 7:59 = good worker bill: here at 8:01 = bad worker never mind what each of them accomplishes during the other 479 minutes of the day, the manager would actually have to pay attention and do his job to properly measure each individuals worth to the firm. this way he can just show up at 7:58 and put his feet up at 8:02. B) since we have demonstrated that mary is the superior employee, she is the individual from the prior example who will be promoted and perpetuate the above practice rewarding and promoting her punctual cohorts. C) hi Opal “Punctuality is the cheapest of virtues.” don’t know who said it, anybody? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/249 "2003-02-13T18:21:20Z")
All right, I’ll give this a try. I characterize myself as neither terminally punctual nor terminally late. I do not believe that there is any objective benefit to being punctual. Arrangements in which time is a factor are made not because they are virtuous but because they are useful. Every time I choose how stringent these arrangements are, I make an impromptu cost-benefit analysis. “I need to catch this plane. It would be really fucking inconvenient if I didn’t. I will be precisely on time.” “My friend and I only have about an hour for lunch. I want to maximize the time we spend chatting and eating, rather than having either of us wait hungrily at the table. I’ll be on time, within a ten minute tolerance.” “My friends and I are going to spend the night chilling, eating pizza, and generally doing nothing. They are starting to get together at eight. If there are other ways I would rather spend my time, then I will do so. I hurt no one by being late, and keeping this arrangement with rigor lacks utility to anyone.” So there you have it. I will make a time commitment whose rigor is directly proportional to its utility to me _and_ to the people I am going to spend time with. If **erl** and I were going to hang out for lunch during a weekday and he has greater flexibility with his time, I imagine we would work out an arrangement rather like this. “Lunch at Nino’s? One o’clock?” “Nah, not sure if I can do that. Between one and one-thirty?” “Sure.” And I’d show up at around 1:20. Why? Because this arrangement wouldn’t piss either of us off. He doesn’t mind waiting a few minutes, and neither do I. If my schedule is less flexible, then I’ll plan on being there to minimize my wait time. Reservations for dinner? “Between eight and eight-thirty.” I’ll make them for eight-thirty, show up at twenty past, and get a drink at the bar. If he’s early, I’d expect to see him there. While I understand that people instinctively resent the fact that their time is wasted by late people _and_ resent that such people may want greater consideration, I fail to see why this is so difficult or even selfish. I, generally punctual, can benefit from this arrangement, too. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/250 "2003-02-13T18:24:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by enipla \* > So, I’ve been called - > A motherfucker (you quoted me in the OP) > A fucking ninney. > A Fucking stupid idiot. > > Yet you think it’s people like me that are rude :rolleyes: Yes you fucking stupid ninny-idiot, I do think that people who insult me in an IMHO forum are rude. If that is “like you” then there you go. > [@](#): > > I you don’t think anyone is at fault, then you shouldn’t make statements like this one. Oh please. **Cheesesteak** said it was “the timing we agreed to” and I responded “guess who’s idea it was to make time so fucking important”. If you read the whole dialog instead of snipping out that little bit you’d see his idea of being accomodating was to just pick _another time._ So yeah, if I suggest that referencing exact times is something I can’t commit to without breaking a promise, and then the person goes ahead and suggests that I commit to another time, then I think I’m in the clear for saying what I said. > [@](#): > > **Lib** > Punctuality is what happens when a promise to be on time is kept, isn’t it? And politeness is what happens when people work around varying standards rather than pressing their own. So am I to assume that if I agree with you that I am making and breaking promises, that you will also agree with me that people pressing times are not being polite themselves? [NOTE: this is not my claim, never has been, etc; I do not think people are being rude by trying to set times, I think they are doing what they normally do and what has worked for them without any problems; I certainly do not consider this a fault, and I only expect the same treatment in return] Also note that if it comes down to “make a promise you may break and see someone, or don’t make a promise and don’t get to see them at all” I will make a promise. I think this is looking at the issue _very_ narrowly, as I mentioned to Fenris you’d have to be just about holding a gun to my head to get me to say something like “I’ll be there at seven sharp”. **pfbob** , that’s a pretty cynical but amusing take. I’ve known some employers like that, but thankfully my current one isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/251 "2003-02-13T18:41:56Z")
I like that very much, **Maeglin**. “I will make a time commitment whose rigor is directly proportional to its utility to me _and_ to the people I am going to spend time with.” I would only add that if the commitment becomes too tight and I do not personally see the utility, I will attempt to find an alternate solution like ones mentioned above (meeting somewhere else, etc). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/252 "2003-02-13T18:42:34Z")
Your quote of me from the OP “[My wife’s] father had a good saying. If you are late and making someone wait for you, you are telling them that your time is more important than theirs. Simply put, true and good advice.” Your response \* I see. And expecting people to be punctual and live by your schedule is just common sense because you are the truest and rightest person ever, you cutie you!\* Yep, expecting people to follow through on their commitments is pretty much common sense. Do you think that’s asking too much? My statement was an opinion, if it applies to you, and you find it insulting, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/253 "2003-02-13T19:12:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Yep, expecting people to follow through on their commitments is pretty much common sense. Do you think that’s asking too much? Don’t ask for time commitments. Do you think that’s too much? We can play this game as long as you want. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/254 "2003-02-13T19:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\ ***erislover** , because I don’t deal well with abstracts in a discussion of this sort, I’m going to ask you for your input on a hypothetical example. > > You and I are friends. I have multiple demands on my time – a wife, five kids, a fairly stressful job, a set of elderly parents who require my help occasionally. As a result, I have to prioritize items in my life and manage my time as best I can. The amount of time you and I get to spend together is necessarily limited, as you can see. > > We decide to meet for lunch on a Saturday, since we haven’t seen each other in three weeks. I tell you, “I’m going to drop the baby off with his grandmother at 10, then I’ve got to pick up the dry-cleaning and run by the grocery store after that. I can meet you at the restaurant at 11:30, but I’ve got to get the ten-year-old to soccer practice by 1, so I’ll need to leave by 12:30.” > > In this scenario, will you budget your time to be at the restaurant by 11:30? \*\* I already tried a similar example Sauron, he didn’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/255 "2003-02-13T19:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*Don’t ask for time commitments. Do you think that’s too much? We can play this game as long as you want. \*\* I think it would be pretty difficult. Where and what, without a when. Whatever Eris, no hard feelings, honestly. See you in the “SUV’s, Gun control, and you”. Thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/256 "2003-02-13T20:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by enipla \* > Whatever Eris, no hard feelings, honestly. Whew! I was hoping “ninny” would give a hint I’m just pitting. 🙂 But really, I and anyone in this thread who even remotely agreed with me would never want their lateness to be interpreted as saying our time was more important than yours. That is a consequence of the very view we don’t hold in the first place. “ **I view** time as that important and so when **I find** someone is **what I consider** to be unreasonably late **I feel** like they feel their time is more important than mine.” That would be much more accurate, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/257 "2003-02-13T20:15:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*I already tried a similar example Sauron, he didn’t get it. \*\* You didn’t like my response? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/258 "2003-02-14T01:11:53Z")
Am I too late to disagree with **erislover** **erislover** don’t you find you miss out on a lot of things because of this attitude? Like not seeing a film because you arrive too late, or waiting 2 hours for a train because you arrive to early? Or do you consider such things to be worth your while to be on time for? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/259 "2003-02-14T01:18:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*You didn’t like my response? \*\* I didn’t see one. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/260 "2003-02-14T01:21:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bippy the Beardless \* > \*\*Am I too late to disagree with **erislover** > > **erislover** don’t you find you miss out on a lot of things because of this attitude? Like not seeing a film because you arrive too late, or waiting 2 hours for a train because you arrive to early? Or do you consider such things to be worth your while to be on time for? \*\* **Bippy** , could **ERL** have been any clearer? Have you been not paying FUCKING attention? He would simply not place himself in a situation where being forced to commit to a time constraint would make either him or his friends meeting him unhappy! From where do you get the idea that only “such things” are worth his while to be on time for? And what do YOU mean by “on time?” **ERL** has already stated in depth his reaction that he attempts to not make himself unduly unhappy by placing himself in such a situation, and I think his explanations really can’t get any more forthright or clearer at this point and damn you all for henpecking this stalwart spirit unbounded by the straight-jacketed constraints of linear time flow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673.md?page=14)