# Seems on time/early people are rude even when people \*aren't\* late (LONG)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 8, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673 "2003-02-08T06:37:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/161 "2003-02-10T01:43:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Gyan9 \*
> **In that case, can you paraphrase your attitude to time ?**
It is not as important as many make it out to be. I do not largely “care” about time.
> [@](#):
>
> _Specific time with certain +/- allowed_.
Not having “permission” to be +/-. The situation is not substancially different, **but** the description is not neutral, and the perceived expectations of the parties involved is not neutral.
Given the polarity in this thread, you might have at least suspected that.
Finally, the “limits” or “what I am allowed” are themselves a matter of personal preference from person to person. Some here have said five, some have said ten, some have said “whatever it is, don’t do it more than a few times” or whatever. The only thing they have in common is the association of time with politeness. I have no such association. To be honest, I think it is a little silly, but I mean no disrespect by that. I can’t imagine looking at my watch and judging you, that’s all.
All things must happen at some time, just as all things must be some length. If you are too tall or too short to look me straight in the eye, are you rude? What if I said so? Obviously polite people don’t require others to bend their neck to talk to people. Or is +/- two inches ok, but 5 is right out? I mean, get a fucking pair of lifts, it is just that simple.
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### Author:  [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/162 "2003-02-10T03:51:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by erislover \*
> It is not as important as many make it out to be. I do not largely “care” about time.
Let me try to expand on this. What’s below is how I understand how _you understand_ importance of time.
Actions and events are important to me. My life and its flow is driven by getting those actions done and experiencing those events. I go onto the next event when the current event terminates. Manufactured constraints of time are not what determine my moving onto the next event.
Would that be accurate ?
I think I can try to counter your argument only if I understand it correctly.
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### Author:  [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/163 "2003-02-10T05:01:46Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Mauvaise \*
> \*\*But you are - you’re trying to say that punctuality=polite is a TRUE statement because 99 out of 100 people think so. That’s not “proof”.
>
> And to you that’s polite - however to Joe Schmo down the street those things might be meaningless. Politeness and other manners are subjective and therefore there can have be no Absolute Truth or Value, if you will. No one person can decide for the rest of us what actually constitutes politeness. Only the individual can do that. \*\*
Sorry, wrong. Politeness is determined by what other people think is polite. You, and Eris, have no special say in the matter. If most other people think that punctuality is polite, then it is. To repeat, it’s not about your opinion, or his, but about how other people interpret things.
Y’all sound like my little brother, when he was a child. [whine]I can do whatever i want, stomps foot. [/whine]
Eris might try growing up. Just a thought.
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### Author:  [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/164 "2003-02-10T05:05:34Z")
eris
I think I finally am seeing somewhat where you are coming and from and where you are trying to get to—although as you have even acknowledged your method of speech is somewhat cumbersome (although I will admit you are easier to read than Justhink was!) -joke- 🙂 I believe many people are trying to take what you say in the most broad sense–and I do believe you are trying to give a very specific narrow definition to your position.
I think a good book that you would enjoy reading is one called
"einsteins dreams’ by Alan Lightman. It is a series of short stories that deal with the concept of time–something that you might find enlightening (or maybe a book to give to your friends waiting for you!) 🙂 But it is a fascinating read on the concepts of time and how they are perceived—I would highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in the concepts of time.
I am curious about something----if you had a friend who held the opposite viewpoint of time that you do. He/she insisted on being exactly on time for everything, but did NOT insist that you do the same. You both agree to meet for lunch between 11 and 1. He/she shows up at 11 and immediately orders lunch and finishes and leaves by 12. You show up at 12:10. Do you order lunch or wait for him/her?
You can not fault him/her–they were there during the prescribed time–they were not rude by following (this is assuming I have followed your train of thought on this issue)their view of time. You weren’t there–they proceeded to eat lunch and left when they were done. You are not rude by getting there when you did, cause you are there within your prescribed time as well.
You guys may never eat lunch together—but if you both accept this as acceptable behavior then I guess it could be a friendship! One where you may never meet-but a friendship nonetheless.
Anyways–a most interesting thread. I personally don’t agree with your position–but I do find it most enlightening.
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### Author:  [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/165 "2003-02-10T06:08:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Politeness is determined by what other people think is polite.
Which other people?
I think the people who aren’t involved have minimal, if any, power of determining what the standards other people should hold are.
My normal social group works just fine without strict scheduling, I suspect rather like **erislover** ’s, and I doubt that any attempt to impose it would go over well or be an improvement to the peace of mind or goodwill of anyone involved. If someone tried to force timekeeping, I suspect that group would be entirely justified in thinking that that someone was being impolite.
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### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/166 "2003-02-10T07:16:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> **Sorry, wrong. Politeness is determined by what other people think is polite.**
So I should just acquiesce to your judgment? Why don’t you “just” acquiesce to mine? I don’t interact with whatever pseudo-entity you envision as “society”, I interact with individual people. And we work out our differences.
> [@](#):
>
> You, and Eris, have no special say in the matter.
Then neither do you.
> [@](#):
>
> If most other people think that punctuality is polite, then it is. To repeat, it’s not about your opinion, or his, but about how other people interpret things.
Unless I’m the one doing the interpreting, right? :rolleyes: As **Lilairen** notes, why can’t I be part of “other people”? Surely I am part of “other people” to _you_. Unless you exclude me by making some judgment beforehand, which of course begs the question.
> [@](#):
>
> Y’all sound like my little brother, when he was a child. [whine]I can do whatever i want, stomps foot. [/whine]
Speaking of strange interpretations…
**Gyan9** , you asked me to explain, and I will, but three sentences won’t even come close. I have a rather large post composed elaborting things, but at the risk of offending the “erl is arrogant” crowd I won’t post it just now unless you ask. We can try the back and forth bit first.
Here are my comments on the three sentences.
> [@](#):
>
> Actions and events are important to me. My life and its flow is driven by getting those actions done and experiencing those events. I go onto the next event when the current event terminates. Manufactured constraints of time are not what determine my moving onto the next event.
Let’s tackle the first sentence. “Actions and events are important to me.” Make it, “Actions, events, people, and things are important to me.” _Fin_.
Second sentence: “My life and its flow is driven by getting those actions done and experiencing those events.” Yes, more or less (with the addition of “interacting with those people” and “having those things”). I reserve the right to nitpick here, depending on your response, but I don’t see a real problem with the phrasing right now.
Third sentence: “Manufactured constraints of time are not what determine my moving onto the next event.” This is impossible. Change it to: “The events inside of time (not the ones _dictated_ by it) do not require exactness, and so I shall not impose exactness.”
**Hakuna Matata** , first let me thank you for the book recommendation. As you describe it the book does sound interesting.
> [@](#):
>
> I am curious about something----if you had a friend who held the opposite viewpoint of time that you do. He/she insisted on being exactly on time for everything, but did NOT insist that you do the same. You both agree to meet for lunch between 11 and 1. He/she shows up at 11 and immediately orders lunch and finishes and leaves by 12. You show up at 12:10. Do you order lunch or wait for him/her?
Strange situation! 🙂 I would order and expect the friend to do the same. The lunch is more or less irrelevant to the whole affair, it is just a backdrop to the meeting. I never expect lunch meetings to work unless it is a coworker for reasons that may or may not be obvious: work interferes in a lot of things for many people. I have no set time for lunch, I just eat some time between 11:30 and 1:30, and sometimes as late as 3, depending. That is a facet of my work, though, not me. If a customer calls with a problem, I do not get to just put them on hold to go eat. So the situation you describe, while a bit strange, is not entirely implausable. In practice the chances are much better that I would call my friend and inform him, or that he would call me when he arrived. I would not expect him to hold off ordering for me, and I would surely not wait on it for him.
In fact, I did have a friend that worked right down the street from me. We rarely got to eat together because of what I do and the problems with lunch scheduling, but the times we did were never set in stone that morning or anything. It is just lunch.
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### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/167 "2003-02-10T07:19:03Z")
Oops, that title is the leftover from the longer post I had prepared for **Gyan9** and is now pretty much meaningless.
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### Author:  [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/168 "2003-02-10T07:30:57Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by erislover \*
> \*\* “The events inside of time (not the ones dictated by it) do not require exactness, and so I shall not impose exactness.” \*\*
I’ve to admit I don’t understand the first part. What are “events inside of time” ? What are “events dictated by it” ?
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### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/169 "2003-02-10T07:47:25Z")
You and I meet up because we want to: event in time. You and I go to a movie: dictated by time (the movie is only showing at these times).
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### Author:  [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/170 "2003-02-10T07:51:52Z")
My opinion, as if anyone cared, is that it’s about power. Those who are always late are exercising it. They tell you that you must wait for them, and in doing so tell you that they are more important than you. Some of us on time folks compensate by telling people to arrive 10 minutes before _we_ plan to, so that we’ll both arrive at the same time. [sub]and that’s really the whole point, isn’t it? I mean, if you can’t make it at 3, if that’s cutting into your schedule too much, tell me what time you _can_ make it and I’ll be there[/sub]
Try an experiment. You know someone who is always 10 minutes late to whatever you have agreed to do. Schedule yourself to always arrive 10 minutes after that. Do it every time. One of three things will happen.
1. They’ll be fine with it. What’s 10 minutes between friends? Or
2. They’ll start to be annoyed with you for making them wait on you. Or
3. They will adjust _their_ time to arrive 10 minutes after _you_.
My guess, it’ll be number 3.
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### Author:  [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/171 "2003-02-10T08:04:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by erislover \*
> **You and I meet up because we want to**
Are we just meeting or are we also pursuing a common activity at the same time (like lunch) ?
In the second case, wouldn’t you say that lunch is kinda an event dictated by time (in the sense that you don’t have lunch at 9 AM or 5 PM, but have a somewhat daily regimented time range of say, between, 11 PM and noon) ?
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### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/172 "2003-02-10T08:10:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Gyan9 \*
> Are we just meeting or are we also pursuing a common activity at the same time (like lunch) ?
Meeting is a common activity.
> [@](#):
>
> In the second case, wouldn’t you say that lunch is kinda an event dictated by time (in the sense that you don’t have lunch at 9 AM or 5 PM, but have a somewhat daily regimented time range of say, between, 11 PM and noon) ?
Sure, and I don’t go to the bank at midnight so that is kinda dictated by time, too. I’m not talking about an _abandonment_ of timekeeping here! 😃 Just a relaxation of it. As such, in this case, a factor would be work schedules. Do you only have 30 minutes for lunch? If that’s the case, given my work, I would make plans for lunch because I can’t promise I’ll be there even with thirty minutes (or an hour). As a generalized propostion, though, lunch happens when you’re hungry, it doesn’t wait on the clock. YMMV.
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### Author:  [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/173 "2003-02-10T10:34:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by erislover \*
> I’m not talking about an _abandonment_ of timekeeping here! 😃 Just a relaxation of it.
Surely, if we decide to meet for lunch, a 12 hour range would be considered abandonment in normal circumstances rather than “relaxation”. My point being the limits which you consider a “relaxation” might be as good as abandonment for **me**. That said, you still haven’t mentioned to me how you schedule meetings with friends and the leniencies allowed. How does that work ?
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### Author:  [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/174 "2003-02-10T12:51:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milroyj \*
> You, and Eris, have no special say in the matter.
I don’t? I’m not part of “other people”? What, pray tell, am I then?
> [@](#):
>
> To repeat, it’s not about your opinion, or his, but about how other people interpret things.
If it’s not about my opinion then you don’t get to tell me how I should interpret anything. Neither does Society. As I stated earlier, it’s up to the individual if they view something as polite or not. Eris, for example, doesn’t view punctuality as anything special. I, on the other hand, do, and am always very punctual.
Eris and I meeting for a casual get together where time doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of what we want to do. We say let’s meet at 3ish. I show up at 2.50 because I’m always on time. He shows up at 3.25 because that’s when he did. He won’t feel I was being polite to him by being there early/on time, nor will he feel he’s being rude to me. He didn’t care that I was there on time and he wouldn’t have cared if I hadn’t have been there and showed up myself at 3.40 making him wait 15 mins.
Now that may not be the way _I_ like to do things, but I also admit that I’m stressed by time. If it works for Eris, and the people he deals with, who are you to tell him it’s rude, or that he needs to grow up? If it’s “other people” that are to interpret Eris’ behaviour don’t _all_ “other people” count. Or is it just the “other people” that agree with you that get a voice?
> [@](#):
>
> Y’all sound like my little brother, when he was a child. [whine]I can do whatever i want, stomps foot. [/whine]
And that’s _your_ interpretation of my behaviour. If we’re going to live by your rule - most of the people in this thread haven’t taken issue with anything I’ve said, so your view of my actions/words, must be mistaken.
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### Author:  [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/175 "2003-02-10T13:26:59Z")
eris
you will love this book—trust me! Based on just that one observation about lunch-- ‘lunch happens when you are hungryit doesn’t wait on the clock’ 🙂 The book is about different places where time means different things for different people. One story deals with people who eat at 12 every day for lunch because 12 is ‘lunch time’, whether they are hungry or not! Whereas there is also a group of people who eat lunch when they are ‘hungry’. The point of the story is that people do run on different times and neither is correct, but both are well ensconced within their own perception of time.
Thank you for responding to my question. You answered the way I expected to, and consistent with your premise. I admit I am like Mauvaise about time–but what works with MY friends won’t work with everyone. I would have to work some sort of agreement out with someone like eris–but if the friendship is important than I would–if it wasn’t I would not. I have friends who are consistently late too, and I don’t wait for them (ie my extreme lunch example!). But if I have a barbeque that starts at 6pm they show up at 7pm. Well we are in the process of eating when they show up–no big deal. They grab a plate and join in at that point—or eat alone. No one is angry now–but it took awhile to find that point of compromise! Many years ago I would have been angry that they kept me waiting—now I am not–but I also don’t wait for them either. They aren’t angry about that–so why should I be?
I think the point eris is making is that he is who he is. To argue that it is a control thing can be flipped around and argued with you that demanding he show up at an ‘exact time’ is controlling too. I have yet to get the sense that agreeing to meet and giving some reasonable time period is not acceptable to eris. However it appears this started cause someone eris knows was upset by him/her (sorry eris I am not sure if you are male or female!) because of being 10 minutes late. Is 10 minutes too much? Is 5? or 30? Who knows–it all depends upon the people involved and what they mean to you.
But again to expect an exact time is controlling–but there is no one saying you have to wait for eris either. When my friend arrives late for the barbeque he gets to participate in that portion–he has missed the first half hour–so what! He isn’t upset that we started late–nor am I upset he is late. Now if he is upset we started without him–then we do have a problem and it is a control thing on his end. I would have preferred him to be on time–no doubt–but to ‘require’ it and be upset by it? nope.
If over time other factors might lead me to drop him as a friend–but the time thing would just be a factor in it–not the reason for it. I make friends for a variety of reasons and I also lose them over time for a variety of reasons.
interesting post nonetheless
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### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/176 "2003-02-10T16:03:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Gyan9 \*
> **Surely, if we decide to meet for lunch, a 12 hour range would be considered abandonment in normal circumstances rather than “relaxation”.**
Then you’re about two seconds away by my watch from completely understanding me. Recall the fact the on timers don’t ask me to meet them at “12:34:32 -5GMT”. Note that I don’t ask for a 12 hour “relaxation” of time. Ponder why, given the range of what people might care about in there, do you suppose punctuality (well, ten minutes early is five minutes late) (well, give or take 5) (well, give or take ten) is the standard? Whose punctuality? Why would acceeding to people’s demands in this thread somehow be a better decision than the people I am actually going to be meeting? Why should I acceed to the demands of friend one when friend one and two are both involved?
> [@](#):
>
> My point being the limits which you consider a “relaxation” might be as good as abandonment for **me**.
Since that is very much what I’ve been trying to say, I am glad we have reached this agreement. Now, do you suppose you can answer your own question how a meeting time might be set up that is beneficial to both parties?
> [@](#):
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> That said, you still haven’t mentioned to me how you schedule meetings with friends and the leniencies allowed. How does that work?
“Wanna hook up?” “Yeah, around 5?” “Yeah”
“Wanna meet for dinner”
“Sure, where?”
“How’s _Mauvaise’s_? They have incredible carob desserts, smothered in a white chocolate sauce.”
“OK, see you 5, 5:30?”
“Great!”
**Mauvaise** , I don’t know how you got dragged into this! ☹ Collateral damage.
> [@](#):
>
> Eris and I meeting for a casual get together where time doesn’t really matter…
Of course, this is just illustrative. In practice every second would count with you! 😉
**Hakuna Matata**
> [@](#):
>
> Who knows–it all depends upon the people involved and what they mean to you.
For me it is more often how often they demand it. Here and there being timely isn’t impossible. All the time? —It is stressful.
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### Author:  [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/177 "2003-02-10T18:01:41Z")
Do not think for a moment that
> [@](#):
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> Of course, this is just illustrative. In practice every second would count with you! 😉
will in any way make of for
> [@](#):
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> “How’s _Mauvaise’s_? They have incredible carob desserts, smothered in a white chocolate sauce.”
:mad: :mad: :mad:
😛
> [@](#):
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> **Mauvaise** , I don’t know how you got dragged into this!
I do, and I did it with open eyes - no worries 🙂
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### Author:  [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/178 "2003-02-11T00:36:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by erislover \*
>
> “Wanna hook up?” “Yeah, around 5?” “Yeah”
>
> “Wanna meet for dinner”
> “Sure, where?”
> “How’s _Mauvaise’s_? They have incredible carob desserts, smothered in a white chocolate sauce.”
> “OK, see you 5, 5:30?”
> “Great!”
Except if the point of meeting is to actually meet, then this doesn’t make sense to me. What if I show up at 5:02, get hungry, enjoy dinner with **Mauvaise** at 5:25, wait till 5:35 and you haven’t showed up yet. Do you expect me to wait till you show up at 5:53 ?
If yes, that’s a rude expectation. (But I don’t think this is your answer)
If no, how do you expect to actually meet ?
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### Author:  [@bong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bong)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/179 "2003-02-11T00:41:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by erislover \*
> \*\*Sorry, I couldn’t ungeneralize the subject enough. It would be too long of a title then.
>
> Relevent link #1
> [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161350](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161350)
>
> Older, also appropriate link
> [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83257](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83257)
>
> Both times I tried to take it in stride, I made jokes, I smiled, I tried to offer a different perspective… but I end up here because the more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off.
>
> Subject at hand in those: why people who are habitaully late are rude, arrogant, self-absorbed fuck sticks. And though it is true that you can get pleasure out of fuck sticks, apparently _late_ fuck sticks do no such thing. In fact, in **both** of those threads you can read testimony?sworn testimony on genuine swiss timepieces! (now where is that swiss smilie when we really need it **Arnold**?)?that certain Grand Polite People of Master Timekeeping felt that habitual lateness is such a crime against god, humanity, and all that is holy that they would stop communicating with these people.
>
> You can’t make this shit up, folks. You just can’t. That’s how we know it is true.
>
> You’d think, given the frequency of people who complain about this, that our esteemed dopers might realize that they are hurling these insults at other dopers. You might think that, gentle reader, but you’d be wrong. You might think that after several posters indicated that they were indirectly the subject of the thread, people might try and back off the vitrol. You might think that, gentle reader, but you’d be wrong.
>
> Let’s witness some tragedy.
>
> **From recent thread** [my comments are italicized]
> [ul][li]“In their case I think its a problem with upbringing - as children they were simply not taught that being on time was important.”[/li]
> _That must be it. It couldn’t possibly be that your life isn’t as grand as you think and being on time really isn’t the beginning of the world, and being late isn’t the end of it._
> [li]“I think most chronically late people are also chronically thoughtless of other people, and how their actions affect them. In other words, people are on time for the things that matter to _them_.”[/li]
> _Well, on one hand, it was IMHO so what you think is worth posting. On the other, you might consider for just a little itty-bitty moment that people are on time when time matters. At least think about it, m’kay?_
> [li]“He’s no longer in our circle of friends - we got tired of always waiting.”[/li]
> _Ah, there it is! The REAL truth comes out! There are priorities, and then there are priorities, yaknowwhatImean? Wink wink nudge nudge? Because god damn, woe be any friend or enemy who is late! I disowned my own child for being born late, did I mention that? That’s right, inconsiderate bastard. I don’t fuck around when it comes to this._
> [li]“Not sure how much of it was pure selfishness and controllable psycho behavior vs. some sort of uncontrollable mental glitch.”[/li]
> _Versus a perspective that doesn’t consider time the most important thing to think about._
> [li]“While I’m not the _time nazi_ that I used to be, I’m always 5 minutes early anyway. If I’m not, it drives me nuts![/li]I think that it’s down-right disrespectful of people to be chronically late when others have to wait for them. Rude, rude, rude! :mad:”
>
> _If this is not being a time nazi, apparently I have some other standards that need adjustment as well! Well, a path to enlightment is posted one thread at a time…_
> [li]“It _is_ a lack of respect for other people’s time and a selfishness that says that whatever YOU are doing is more important than the other person’s time and plans…[/li]He and his wife are no longer friends of mine, for other reasons as well, but the whole “respect for my time” issue was right up there with the rest of them.”
>
> \*Well, thank heavens there are some other priorities there as well. This must be an ex-time-nazi as well. You ought to form a club. Hey, all the meetings could start five minutes early! But wait, then people would show up five minutes before that to be on time. But then you could start the meeting ten minutes early!
>
> Uh-oh, I think I know where this is going! [cue laff track]\*
> [li]“People who are chronically late are creating a situation in which every single interaction they have with another person begins with the other person holding a grudge against them.”[/li]
> _Well that is a new one on me. Seems to me you are being a little presumptuous there in your assessment of people everywhere. I mean, what if two people who are chronically late meet each other, and both of them are late? Do they never speak again? Such a fascinating social dynamic to uncover!? Too bad it is bullshit dressed up in sheep vomit._
> [li]“People who are chronically late want the attention of “WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN” or “WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU” so they feel like they were missed and are that important that life was held up just for them.[/li]I feel those people are sociopaths who need a frosty mug of straighten up and fly right.”
>
> _Sociopaths, folks, sociopaths. A danger to society and the timepieces we hold dear. We tried to get a public list available for posting on the internet and at police stations, complete with photos and everything, but strangely no one showed up at the appointed time._
> [li]“For me, its a sign of disrespect. ‘You’re not worth enough time/worry/ whatever on my part to give a rat’s ass about your time table.’”[/li]
> _Classic. Hope that sword your carving such a clear path with doesn’t have two sharp edges on it. I’d hate to see you get hurt or put your foot in your mouth or say something hypocritical. Or something. Yep._
> [li]“Chronically tardy people tend to be more narcissistic and self-absorbed than the rest of the populace. They also tend to vehemently deny these character traits in themselves.”[/li]
> _No way out of that one, is there? What a great trap! Have you stopped beating your wife?_
> [/ul]
> **From older thread** [my comments are italicized]
> [ul][li]“We quit going out with them - it wasn’t worth the aggravation.”[/li]
> _Boy howdy it wasn’t! You made a smart move. There are much more important things than people’s company… there’s **TIME**!_
> [li]"[My wife’s] father had a good saying. If you are late and making someone wait for you, you are telling them that your time is more important than theirs. Simply put, true and good advice."[/li]
> _I see. And expecting people to be punctual and live by your schedule is just common sense because you are the truest and rightest person ever, you cutie you!_
> [li]“I think the most rude things you can do are things that imply you think you’re more important than everyone else, and being late is such an implicit statement.”[/li]
> _Unlike the implicit statements of people who terminate friendships over something like being late? Or what?_
> [li]“Bet she wonders why nobody here wants to hang out with her anymore!”[/li]
> _I’ll bet she does, whoa, you showed her what friendship is all about, didntcha? High five!_
> [li]“People who are habitually late are completely disrespectful of the time and priorities of those they are meeting.”[/li]
> _Oh, I agree completely! Why can’t everyone just realize the simple fact that time is the same thing as my schedule and way of life? I don’t get it! I tell ya, those late people, they just don’t understand. How selfish of them!_
> [li]“My time is not more valuable, but neither is yours, get it?”[/li]
> _Right. Thus, we all follow your schedule and rules. Simple!_
> [li]“Some people have whole days off with nothing to do. Others have to visit the drycleaners, the school, the doctor, and the grocery store. If you make yourself inconvenient for the latter sort of person to see, then you’ll miss out on their friendship.”[/li]
> _IMNSHO, anyone who requires punctuality for friendship is likely not worth having as a friend._
> [li]“I’m done with the debate. There’s a reason I don’t have any friends with your attitude anymore, and my life is significantly more stress free because of it.”[/li]
> _And might that reason be that you are a deeply hypocritical bitch?_
> [li]“Loudly seconding TVeblen, YES! Inconsiderate bastards will complain when you and your five friends cease waiting for them after 30 minutes. DUMP these people, they have all the empathy of garden slugs, give them a ‘Am I sociopathic’ pamphlet, anything.”[/li][li]“You’re not inconvenienced at all by being asked to stick to a schedule - your distress is caused entirely by your own self-importance.”[/ul][/li]But this, my friends, is not the end of the tale. It is the beginning. Sure, these comments might seem a little harsh for IMHO based on the number of people we can expect to be habitually late distributed throughout the population, but in fact there were people in the thread who admitted to being such people! Yes, my friends, a direct attack thus comes flying out.
>
> These were particularly intriguing to me.
> **Listen up you motherfuckers.** I am withholding names here for two reasons. One, I’m not pitting **you**. I’d like to, quite frankly, I really would, because let me tell you how much I hate being called a sociopath and arrogant and rude and so on by people I respect in an opinion forum (hell, I wouldn’t like being called these things _anywhere_ but IMHO is definitely higher on that list than this forum). But I’m not. You walk into this thread and claim an opinion, that’s your call: you’ve got my vitrol. I’m not dragging you in, calling you out, or any other sort of ridiculous behavior. Two, some of the quotes above are from an old thread, and perhaps you’ve become a little nicer of person in this time. I don’t want to pin anyone to something they said a while ago.
>
> **Listen up you motherfuckers.** I realize some people might have issues with being late. **Considerate, thoughtful, intelligent, respectable** people also realize that their time is no more important than mine, and we seek accord on that. You want facts? I’ve got a fact: expecting me to make nitpicky fucking schedules to see you would be just as annoying as me expecting you to wait on my lateness. Some of you cruel fucks would consider this minor fucking hurdle to seeing each other as a mountain of epic proportions. Tell your friends how much you love them. Next friend you see, you tell them, “I love you, you’re a great friend and all, but I tell ya what, if you ever stop being punctual, out the door with you you arrogant bastard.” FUCKING SAY IT TO EVERYONE. Your husbands and wives, you children, your friends… go on. Because that’s what it means to be your friend. And since having fucking precise contracts is so god damned important, make your fucking intentions clear now. Don’t _just_ tell them how you feel, tell them everything you expect from them, tell them how you expect them to adopt your standards of politeness and explain that if they don’t _adopt your standards_ they will “obviously” be “rude” and “arrogant” and “selfish”. Go ahead. Because that’s what you mean, isn’t it? That’s what you _want_ in people.
>
> **Listen up you motherfuckers.** You’ve got a double standard here. I don’t know what fucking incredibly asinine generalization you made to reach it, or how many assholes you had to come across to form it, and frankly I don’t much _want_ to know. Because you’re wrong.
>
> We aren’t all arrogant. We do care about people. We have some different priorities. Don’t fucking expect me to even grant YOUR (yes, _your_: you adopted them and you are enforcing them) standards any weight in my opinions if you can’t consider mine, either.
>
> Assholes are assholes. Lots of them are on time. \*\*
Woah. That IS long.
---
### Author:  [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seems-on-time-early-people-are-rude-even-when-people-arent-late-long/153673/180 "2003-02-11T00:52:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Gyan9 \*
> Except if the point of meeting is to actually meet, then this doesn’t make sense to me. What if I show up at 5:02, get hungry, enjoy dinner with **Mauvaise** at 5:25, wait till 5:35 and you haven’t showed up yet. Do you expect me to wait till you show up at 5:53?
5:55 and fifty-five seconds, actually, but that’s a different matter 😉
> [@](#):
>
> If no, how do you expect to actually meet ?
So let me get this straight. You are going to create examples where I don’t meet with someone, and then ask me how we’re supposed to meet? I said five, five-thirty. That’s a nice window for me. I don’t feel pressured to show at 4:55 or anything. If I go outside that window and don’t call or anything, maybe we won’t meet, and damn right you’d be pissed about it. I can’t say that’s ever happened to me, though, so I’m just guessing.
So let’s say I _do_ say “5, 5:30.” What time do you show up? 5:00? 5:10? Knowing it doesn’t bother _me_ to wait, why wouldn’t you just show at 5:30? If punctuality matters to you, pick that time and be on time. Everyone wins. 🙂
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