# Seinfeld: "Not that there's anything wrong with it" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007 "2015-11-19T19:53:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/1 "2015-11-19T19:53:07Z")
I was in my company’s cafeteria today when I heard someone say the phrase, “Not that there’s anything wrong with it”, followed by some chuckles. I have no idea about the context of the conversation but it immediately reminded me of a Seinfeld episode. I’ve watched every episode of Seinfeld, but am not a regular watcher of the re-runs, so don’t fully remember the exact details. But the phrase was used more than once in the context of someone being a mistaken as a homosexual. I remember that, at the time, I felt the phrase to be quite patronizing. I remember thinking: “Of course there’s nothing wrong with it. Why the need to point that out?” Did anyone else feel the same? I remember being surprised that there wasn’t any backlash, especially because they repeated it at least once followed by a laugh track, which actually made it somewhat offensive. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/2 "2015-11-19T19:58:42Z")
Bear in mind, that was more than a year before Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/3 "2015-11-19T20:02:52Z")
As I recall, the joke wasn’t at the expense of homosexuals, but at Jerry and George who felt compelled to stress that they were not homosexuals but also wanting to not imply that there was anything wrong with being homosexual. It’s mocking liberal guilt, I guess. Sure, by modern standards the show is less-than-sensitive, though I think it redeemed itself with a later pair of recurring characters who embodied the stereotypical lisping effete affectations while also being aggressive and intimidating. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/4 "2015-11-19T20:06:58Z")
It was used in the episode “The Outing,” which first aired in February 1993 – nearly a quarter century ago, when there weren’t a lot of gay characters (at least in prominent roles) on television at all. _Will and Grace_, for instance, didn’t debut until 1998. I think the phrase “not that there’s anything wrong with that” was a way of showing the characters were sincerely fine with homosexual lifestyles, but also pointing out that there was a little awkwardness about having to make that acknowledgement. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/5 "2015-11-19T20:08:07Z")
\ “Not that there’s anything wrong with that.” \ ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/6 "2015-11-19T20:17:49Z")
IIRC, Larry David said that while writing it, they were trying really hard to be funny without being offensive. The phrase was a way to steer the episode away from outright homophobia, while also mocking the idea that they needed to give people that “cue” so they wouldn’t feel guilty for laughing. Sure, it might be a little old-fashioned on TV today, but I’d argue that without it, the episode would be much weirder. ETA: Also, at the end of the episode a soldier talks to Jerry about how he’s finally decided to come out of the closet, even though it could get him kicked out of the military. It had a very gay rights feel to it, which was probably intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/7 "2015-11-19T20:18:06Z")
The context is that Jerry and George are having lunch when they notice a woman eavesdropping on them. They decide to pretend that they are a gay couple breaking up. Later, Jerry learns that the woman is a reporter who was supposed to interview him and who now thinks that he’s gay. > [@](#): > > There’s been a big misunderstanding here! We did that whole thing for your benefit. We knew you were eavesdropping. That’s why my friend said all that. It was on purpose! We’re not gay! Not that there’s anything wrong with that… Each time is essentially Jerry protesting that he’s not gay and then feeling the need to append that it’d be okay if he was, he just isn’t. He feels the need to say it because he’s protesting against the idea of being a homosexual. The humor isn’t because of the gay angle so much as because of Jerry’s clumsy, politically correct (remember: 1993) attempts to cover himself. And then, of course, the recurring line spoken throughout the episode by other characters. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/8 "2015-11-19T20:23:01Z")
IIRC, a journalist was writing an article about Jerry, and was going to either state or imply that he and George were lovers. So it wasn’t just being mistaken for gay, but having it revealed publicly that they didn’t want to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/9 "2015-11-19T20:23:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The context is that Jerry and George are having lunch when they notice a woman eavesdropping on them. They decide to pretend that they are a gay couple breaking up. Later, Jerry learns that the woman is a reporter who was supposed to interview him and who now thinks that he’s gay. As I vaguely recall, I think Elaine was the one who joked (for the sole purpose of trolling the eavesdropper) that George and Jerry were gay, and then George played along (to troll the eavesdropper as well as Jerry, who was obviously uncomfortable with the idea - not that there was anything wrong with it). There may be everything wrong with my memory, I admit. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/10 "2015-11-19T20:31:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As I vaguely recall, I think Elaine was the one who joked (for the sole purpose of trolling the eavesdropper) that George and Jerry were gay, and then George played along (to troll the eavesdropper as well as Jerry, who was obviously uncomfortable with the idea - not that there was anything wrong with it). > > There may be everything wrong with my memory, I admit. [Nope, you’re correct.](http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheOuting.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/11 "2015-11-19T20:45:00Z")
I’ve seen it done in the wild when someone online says something that might read as disparaging towards gay people. It’s odd, but, unlike “I’m not a racist, but…,” I tend to believe them. It often takes that same form, with them explaining why they aren’t gay while saying there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m also pretty sure that Louis CK has used it to great effect, so the joke part of it still works. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/12 "2015-11-19T20:58:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve seen it done in the wild when someone online says something that might read as disparaging towards gay people. \*\*It’s odd, but, unlike “I’m not a racist, but…,” I tend to believe them. \*\*It often takes that same form, with them explaining why they aren’t gay while saying there’s nothing wrong with it. (Bolding mine) Interesting point – and I completely agree. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/13 "2015-11-19T21:04:42Z")
> [@Gordon\_Urquhart](#): > > (Bolding mine) Interesting point – and I completely agree. Can you or **Big T** explain the distinction. Why is one “okay” but not the other (I have no problem with either one)? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/14 "2015-11-19T21:18:48Z")
“I’m not racist but…” is obviously a set up for a comment that will sound at least a little racist. “Not that there’s anything wrong with that” in normal usage usually follows a guess whether someone is gay or not. Obviously being racist isn’t “ok” whereas wondering about someone’s sexual preferences is pretty innocuous for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/15 "2015-11-19T21:27:23Z")
“The Outing” was also the episode where George, trying to convince the female reporter he wasn’t gay, said emphatically “Look, you wanna have sex right now? Do want to have sex with me right now? Let’s go!” ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Urquhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Gordon\_Urquhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Urquhart)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/16 "2015-11-19T21:28:55Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > Can you or **Big T** explain the distinction. Why is one “okay” but not the other (I have no problem with either one)? \*\* CarnalK\*\* pretty much explains my thoughts: > [@](#): > > “I’m not racist but…” is obviously a set up for a comment that will sound at least a little racist. “Not that there’s anything wrong with that” in normal usage usually follows a guess whether someone is gay or not. Obviously being racist isn’t “ok” whereas wondering about someone’s sexual preferences is pretty innocuous for the most part. I’d never compared the two phrases, but I can definitely see how they’re both made to modify a statement that could be perceived as insensitive in their respective usages. Someone who says “not that there’s anything wrong with that,” at least in my experience, actually means what they’re saying; saying “I’m not racist, but …,” again, in my experience, usually doesn’t turn out well. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/17 "2015-11-19T21:29:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve seen it done in the wild when someone online says something that might read as disparaging towards gay people. Not that there’s anything wrong with it but your “in the wild” is just somewhere else online other than here? It’s time to get out more. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/18 "2015-11-19T23:11:52Z")
By comparison, “No Homo” and “Pause” were fairly widely used (without much hesitation or protest, depending on the environment) a decade or 2 later. I think “not that there’s anything wrong with that” is a fairly benign way to explain while one does not want to be mis-identified as gay, he doesn’t have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/19 "2015-11-19T23:16:18Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Not that there’s anything wrong with it but your “in the wild” is just somewhere else online other than here? > > It’s time to get out more. I explained that no one in real life uses it. (Though they do use it as a joke.) But thanks for giving me a counterexample to my claim. You clearly do think there’s something wrong with that. The only question is whether you know this is a meme that people use to harass me or not. Just because I mention something online doesn’t mean I don’t get out. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007/20 "2015-11-19T23:23:46Z")
Demetri Martin has a similar joke ten years later: > [@](#): > > I’m in a weird position, because I like rainbows, but I’m not gay. So whenever I go out wearing a rainbow shirt, I have to put “Not gay.” But I’m not against gays, so under that I’ll have to put “… but supportive.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-not-that-theres-anything-wrong-with-it/738007.md?page=2)