# Seinfeld says pilots and finales are usually the two worst shows - any exceptions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082 "2007-11-03T02:33:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/41 "2007-11-03T17:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=AuntiePam] I thought the pilot of **Deadwood** was excellent. Milch had a lot of characters to introduce and put personalities on, and he did it really well. The final episode of Deadwood doesn’t count as a finale. (The less said about that, the better.) [/QUOTE] Supposedly there are going to be _Deadwood_ movies to wrap up the show. The set for the show was razed, but Milch said that was easily resolved as in real life Deadwood was destroyed twice by fire, so the movie could be set afterward on a similar set. OTOH, the longer they wait the less chance of getting everybody back together, as Olyphant/Bullock and McShane/Swedgen are the two essentials and both seem to have full schedules. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/42 "2007-11-03T17:28:31Z")
The pilot and the series finale are frequently the least representative episodes of a series. Maybe that’s kinda what he was trying to get at. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/43 "2007-11-03T18:15:19Z")
[QUOTE=Surbey] well, no one mentioned any anime shows… [/QUOTE] _sob_ No one’s reading my [posts](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9140534&postcount=28). ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/44 "2007-11-03T19:35:52Z")
I think **winterhawk** is the first person I heard of who liked the **Roseanne** finale. I thought it was wretched. Of the episodic series I watch, I think **The Sopranos** probably had the strongest pilot. The finale was pretty good too. The pilot of **The Venture Brothers** is as brilliant as any other episode of the series. **The A-Team** had a pretty good pilot; the only thing wrong with it is that Face is played by Tim Dunigan, and he was terrible. It didn’t really have a finale, though the whole final season was a pretty big drag. Check out [this McSweeney’s article](http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/10/20carvell.html) for what would have been a brilliant **Murder She Wrote** finale. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/45 "2007-11-03T22:15:11Z")
**Mad About You** had a great finale. ---
**Author:** ![merrily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@merrily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrily)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/46 "2007-11-03T22:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] IMHO. Both the pilot and finale of _Hill Street Blues_ were also pretty good, IIRC. [/QUOTE] I don’t remember the finale, but the pilot still lives in my imagination, It had TWO killer reveals, one about what happened to the two cops, and the other about who was sleeping with the Captain. Just a beautifully done show. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/47 "2007-11-03T22:49:17Z")
I recall the **X-Files** pilot being very good. And **NYPD Blue**. And, as mentioned, **Twin Peaks**. But those were about establishing atmosphere & Seinfeld doesn’t seem to have much interest in that. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/48 "2007-11-03T23:30:25Z")
Due South’s pilot movie generally makes for an excellent buddy-cop movie, although in general presentation it’s not really the same as the regular show (the show tended to be played more for laughs while the pilot was mostly-serious, but both were quite good). I remember that I rather liked the series finale, which had drama, laughs, but most importantly: PARA MOUNTIES! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/49 "2007-11-03T23:48:03Z")
Pilots/first episodes, especially today, tend to be among the better episodes of the series. They’ve got to set theme, tone, introduce characters, kick of major story lines, and sell the network, the critics, and the audience before they turn to check out the pilots on the other channels. Plus, there’s generally more time to make it good than there is for later episodes in the series. They ought to be pretty good. Series finales, on the other hand, don’t tend to be among the best episodes of the series. There are exceptions, of course, but among longer running series, there usually have been a number of truly great episodes. The finales are carrying the weight of expectations, the need to wrap everything up, a compressed time schedule, and a cast and crew that knows their paychecks are coming to an end. Because they were last, they’re often among the more memorable episodes of the series, but often times not really the best. ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/50 "2007-11-03T23:49:00Z")
Blake’s 7 had a great pilot/first episode and two great finales! (the show had a last minute stay of execution, so we got what they thought was the finale in season three and the real, EVEN BETTER finale in season 4. Blackadder also had a great first episode (Peter Cook!) and a great finale, too mm ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/51 "2007-11-03T23:58:26Z")
I can’t believe anyone liked the fanale of M_A_S\*H. Way too long and featured Hawkeye completing his journey to the ultimate pussy. Donald Southerland wept. ---
**Author:** ![TripleTee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TripleTee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TripleTee)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/52 "2007-11-04T00:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=Spatial Rift 47] Similarly, The Next Generation pilot was well written and intriguing, plus we were introduced to Q, and the finale had much of the pilot’s charm. The worst episode, at least in my opinion, was the second season finale, “Shades of Grey,” which was a clip show. [/QUOTE] I thought the TNG pilot was terrible. Ditto the finale. There was tons of good stuff in between. The pilot was badly overacted, and the finale was just plain stupid. Both of the pilots for the original Star Trek were excellent, in fact “The Cage” was some of the best work they ever did, as was evidenced by the Hugo Award they won when they re-incorporated that episode into “The Menagerie” two-parter. I didn’t much care for the DS9 finale. The pilot was ok. Voyager had an ok pilot as well. The finale, however, was one of the best Star Trek finales ever. In fact, it needed to be a three-parter rather than a two-parter. Its only flaw was that it ended too abruptly. ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/53 "2007-11-04T00:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] But I’m not a real fan of the Firefly finale [/QUOTE] What Firefly finale? _Objects In Space_, which was just the final episode, not the finale, or _Serenity_ the movie, which was a movie, not a finale? _Reaper_’s pilot was light-years better than any of the following episodes to this point (though I missed the Halloween ep). Whilst I agree that _Pushing Daisies_ pie-lette was great, following episodes have still been improvements on it, so perhaps, while being good in its own right, it does fit the OP, at least IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/54 "2007-11-04T00:46:34Z")
This is, um, a bit of a lower level of TV show, but the pilot for _Due South_ was awesome, not just for it’s jokes, but also for it’s **dogsled-chase with cliff-jumping action**. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/55 "2007-11-04T00:50:23Z")
The first episode of the _The Young Ones_ was the funniest thing I had ever seen on television at the time and the finale was perfect - outrageously funny, poigniant and dignfiied. mm ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/56 "2007-11-04T00:56:09Z")
The pilot for **That 70’s Show** was near perfect (although the finale was horribly sappy). ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/57 "2007-11-04T00:57:48Z")
I thought the Magnum PI finale was excellent. Not the actual finale, but the one from the season before, when Magnum was shot and walks off into the sunset. Then CBS decided to renew the series and they had to figure out out to resurrect Thomas without making him a zombie. Hmmm, “Zombie Magnum PI.” Could work. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/58 "2007-11-04T01:17:35Z")
[QUOTE=straight man] This is, um, a bit of a lower level of TV show, but the pilot for _Due South_ was awesome, not just for it’s jokes, but also for it’s **dogsled-chase with cliff-jumping action**. :eek: [/QUOTE] Obviously HIS father never gave him that piece of advice! 😃 And whadyaMEAN it’s a lower level of TV show?! Pistols at dawn, good sir! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/59 "2007-11-04T01:19:55Z")
The pilot for **Hill Street Blues** was jaw-dropping, I-never-saw-that-on-TV-before good. So good in fact, that they had to bring back two characters who had (apparently) been killed. The finale of **Cheers** , although it bogged down tying up loose ends, was notable for bringing back the character of Dianne Chambers, written and performed as if she had never left the show at all. As noted upthread, the finale of **Newhart** may have been the. best. ever. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2007, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082/60 "2007-11-04T03:32:49Z")
[QUOTE=Hometownboy] In an interview in the Nov. 9 Entertainment Weekly, Jerry Seinfeld says “Writing a movie is like doing the pilot episode and series finale all in one. And those are usually the two worst episodes of a TV show.” [/QUOTE] I think the proper translation for this remark might be, “I’ve written a movie based solely on an extremely weak pun, and am just beginning to realize what a terrible mistake this was.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seinfeld-says-pilots-and-finales-are-usually-the-two-worst-shows-any-exceptions/425082.md?page=4)