Seinfeld says pilots and finales are usually the two worst shows - any exceptions?

[Lambo]

I think the pilot of NewsRadio was quite good, even with (or because of, some may say) the absence of Joe Rogan.

[Annie-Xmas]

Married with Children had a great pilot, with the Bundys being who they were and remained, and Marcy Rhodes being all nice and sweet and thinking she would uplift them, not knowing they would drag her down to their level.

[FriarTed]

@Otto

And the finale was also great. Not a popular opinion but I stand by it.

Not as great as the pilot, not even as great as some of the episodes leading up to the solving of LP’s murder, but still a damn fine finale’ in that it salvaged what made Twin Peaks great out of the meanderings that occurred after the LP case was closed.

And yeah, I’m buying the damn Gold Box set- well, asking for it for Christmas at least.

[Ceejaytee]

@LurkMeister

And then there’s Babylon 5. JMS shot a show finale for the end of Season 4, when it looked like the show was going to be canceled, then shot a new Season 4 finale and saved the show he had already shot for the end of Season 5.

I was going to mention this. I think the final episode of the 5th season was a total disappointment, which appears to be contrary to the view of most fans. But the finale for season 4 was one of the best episodes of the series. My husband and I still talk about it.

[Antinor01]

@unwashed brain

“Cartman Gets an Anal Probe”

I came in to say that one. We recently started buying the South Park seasons and I watched that one for the first time in a long time. That episode is one of the funniest things I have ever seen in my life.

[control-z]

@fusoya

I was coming into this thread to use that as my prime exception. I’m not going to spoil it for those who haven’t seen it, but the ending of the pilot of The Shield left me with my jaw wide open (something that very seldomly happens to me) and thinking “holy shit, FX is finally going to become a real channel!” … and this was before NipTuck, Rescue Me, 30 Days, etc came along.

I remember the FX advertising blitz for The Shield just about made me not watch it, but I did, and WOW.
I’m going to add Chuck to the list, I think the pilot was better than the rest of the episodes, I’ve quit watching it now.

[Infovore]

@Nonsuch

I think winterhawk is the first person I heard of who liked the Roseanne finale. I thought it was wretched.

Hey, I’m not offended. I like a lot of things that most people consider wretched.

But seriously–did you like the show? If you didn’t like the show, I could see how you wouldn’t like the finale, but I thought it did a great job of wrapping up the series and putting it all (especially those horrible lottery episodes–which didn’t seem quite so horrible post-finale) into context.

I liked the earlier episodes of Roseanne better than the later ones, but I quite liked the finale.

[Illuminatiprimus]

I really enjoyed the Roseanne finale as well - and indeed it made the 'shroom experience that was the final series understandable.

[Peter_Morris]

I disagree with the basic premise of the question. Only on rare occasions are the pilot and the finale the worst episodes. Usually, the worst episodes are in the last season, after things are going wrong. Stars quit, writers leave, long running plots get stale, and so on. But when there is a definite end for the show, the writers put together all their best stuff and put it in the finale. Sometimes it totally fails (Quantum Leap) but more often the finale is the best episode of the season, though not as good as it used to be.

[LurkMeister]

@Illuminatiprimus

So what was that episode when he met “God” about then? Considering it had the whole bit with Sam changing Al’s past and the screen saying “Sam never came home” I think that’s a fairly definitive ending. Or maybe it only aired in the UK.

My post regarding the episode you’re talking about was in the same vein as those people who deny that there was ever a second Highlander movie. Many of my friends who are QL fans hated the last episode, mostly because of the “Sam never came home” ending. It seemed too capricious to leave Sam bouncing through time and never be allowed to return to his wife, particularly after all he had done to help others.

[Bosstone]

@Ceejaytee

I was going to mention this. I think the final episode of the 5th season was a total disappointment, which appears to be contrary to the view of most fans. But the finale for season 4 was one of the best episodes of the series. My husband and I still talk about it.

I went through Babylon 5 for the first time earlier this year, and I was completely hooked from the middle of Season 1. I was watching two episodes a night, roughly. As soon as I finished the last disc of Season 4, I decided to just skip Season 5. Season 4 simply wrapped the series up so neatly that I had absolutely no desire to see any more.

[Raguleader]

@Bosstone

I went through Babylon 5 for the first time earlier this year, and I was completely hooked from the middle of Season 1. I was watching two episodes a night, roughly. As soon as I finished the last disc of Season 4, I decided to just skip Season 5. Season 4 simply wrapped the series up so neatly that I had absolutely no desire to see any more.

Well, Season 4 really is the climax of the series. Season 5 is basically the Scouring of the Shire, an epilogue that shows that just cause they won the big fight doesn’t mean they don’t have other messes to deal with, and it also sets up the stage for things like Crusade (a shame that show never got a decent pilot or finale either).

[Merijeek]

@garygnu

The pilot for That 70’s Show was near perfect (although the finale was horribly sappy).

I didn’t see all that much of the final season. After they killed off Eric’s attempted replacement between seasons, how did it all end?

-Joe

[Merijeek]

@LurkMeister

My post regarding the episode you’re talking about was in the same vein as those people who deny that there was ever a second Highlander movie. Many of my friends who are QL fans hated the last episode, mostly because of the “Sam never came home” ending. It seemed too capricious to leave Sam bouncing through time and never be allowed to return to his wife, particularly after all he had done to help others.

Sure, but wasn’t the whole point that Sam had a choice to be selfish and go home or be selfless and give up on going home for the sake of making the world a better place?

-Joe

[D_Odds]

Considering the number of pilots, first episodes, and finales* out there, maybe there is truth in what Seinfeld says. So far through this thread, I see ~75 posts which simply state “my pet series has a good pilot, first episode, or finale”. I don’t think Seinfeld meant to infer that every pilot and finale are the worst shows, and from what I’m reading here, I don’t see any proof against his statement that the pilot and finale are usually the worst shows.

YMMV.

*By finale, I don’t mean simply the last episode, but an episode specifically scripted as a final episode. Firefly did not have a finale. Married with Children did not have a finale. I also don’t consider season finales, whether or not it turns out to be a series finale, a finale.

[SuaSponte]

@AuntiePam

I thought the pilot of Deadwood was excellent. Milch had a lot of characters to introduce and put personalities on, and he did it really well.

Hmm. MrsSponte and I just watched that, and we both agreed that it was confusing and poorly plotted.

Sua

[Tamerlane]

@SuaSponte

Hmm. MrsSponte and I just watched that, and we both agreed that it was confusing and poorly plotted.

I’m not sure I’d agree with poorly plotted. I think more densely plotted.

But I agree it was slightly confusing. It took me two or three episodes to really warm up to Deadwood and I think I appreciated the pilot a lot more rewatching it on DVD after already having seen the whole season.

[Spatial_Rift_47]

@TripleTee

Voyager had an ok pilot as well. The finale, however, was one of the best Star Trek finales ever. In fact, it needed to be a three-parter rather than a two-parter. Its only flaw was that it ended too abruptly.

I’m divided about the way Voyager ended - and I use those words specifically. The final episode was well done, I agree. I have two objections:

1. Voyager ruined the Borg. In TNG they were a force of nature, an unstoppable tsunami, something that made even the hardiest Starfleet captains consider a change of uniform. By the end of Voyager, they were raiding Borg ships for parts and, in the finale, invading a Borg transwarp hub. As a result, the Borg lost most of their entertainment value.

2. Voyager ended without wrapping up a lot of loose threads. What will happen to Seven of Nine? What will the Doc end up doing? What will Starfleet do with the former Maquis, B’Elanna and Chakotay and others? What will happen to the crewmen from the USS Nova? How will Starfleet deal with the introduction of technology from its future (transphasic torpedoes and the fancy hull armor)? The finale should have dealt with those issues - so yeah, it should have been a three parter, or maybe even two two-parters.

[flight]

@LurkMeister

My post regarding the episode you’re talking about was in the same vein as those people who deny that there was ever a second Highlander movie. Many of my friends who are QL fans hated the last episode, mostly because of the “Sam never came home” ending. It seemed too capricious to leave Sam bouncing through time and never be allowed to return to his wife, particularly after all he had done to help others.

Rather than capricious, I saw a tragic beauty in it as it was his own choice. I had some problems with some of the dialog and acting in that episode, but I thought the plot was good. The scene of him going back to Al’s wife was great. That made the whole episode for me. Probably the best scene in the series.

[Spoke]

The first episode of the Andy Griffith Show was quite funny, and even moving (as Opie adjusted to the arrival of Aunt Bea).

(Not sure if that counts as the pilot, since I think the characters were previewed on an episode of the Danny Thomas Show).