# Seizing drugs in international waters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 1, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829 "2005-11-01T00:23:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/1 "2005-11-01T00:23:07Z")
The BBC is [reporting](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4394392.stm) that a British (Royal) Navy frigate intercepted a sppedboat transporting two tonnes of cocaine, 100 miles off Nicaragua. What’s the formal legal basis of such action? Aren’t drug laws within the limits of a country’s jurisdiction? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/2 "2005-11-01T01:22:20Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > The BBC is [reporting](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4394392.stm) that a British (Royal) Navy frigate intercepted a sppedboat transporting two tonnes of cocaine, 100 miles off Nicaragua. What’s the formal legal basis of such action? Aren’t drug laws within the limits of a country’s jurisdiction? According to maritime law, they can board ships in international waters if they have reason to believe it is involved in: A. A crime that extends to the shore of the country in question B. Smuggling contraband or drugs ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/3 "2005-11-01T01:55:20Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > According to maritime law Which maritime law? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/4 "2005-11-01T02:11:33Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Which maritime law? I believe maritime law is international law. If I recall correctly, it’s kinda’ weird and based on international treaty, precedent, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/5 "2005-11-01T02:27:06Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > According to maritime law, they can board ships in international waters if they have reason to believe it is involved in: > > A. A crime that extends to the shore of the country in question > B. Smuggling contraband or drugs What about piracy? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/6 "2005-11-01T02:41:16Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > What about piracy? What about it? IIRC, most modern piracy occures within national maritime boundries. And, I’d be surprised if there weren’t international treaties dealing with piracy. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/7 "2005-11-01T03:17:23Z")
Information about [modern piracy](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/pirates.htm) Cite for my above assertion in Post #2: > [@Convention on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone](#): > > 1. The criminal jurisdiction of the coastal State should not be exercised on board a foreign ship passing through the territorial sea to arrest any person or to conduct any investigation in connexion with any crime committed on board the ship during its passage, save only in the following cases: [Source for quote](http://www.un.org/law/ilc/texts/terrsea.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/8 "2005-11-01T04:33:33Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Cite for my above assertion in Post #2: > > [Source for quote](http://www.un.org/law/ilc/texts/terrsea.htm) Not quite right. The law of the sea was originally part of customary international law, but has been the subject of several multilateral treaties. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law\_of\_the\_Sea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_Sea) The treaty that you cited is from the first UN Confrerence on the Law of the Sea. That treaty deals with states’s rights and powers in the territorial sea and the contiguous zone. These terms were more clearly defined in the [UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (1982)](http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf) (pdf) (“LOS”). The LOS treaty settled international disputes about the boundaries of territorial seas by setting the maximum at 12 miles from the baseline (which is defined in the treaty). Within the territorial seas, the coastal state’s drug laws can be applied to foreign flag vessels. See LOS, Art. 27. On the high seas, the seas beyond the 12 mile limit, only the flag state has jurisdiction (except for cases of piracy and slavery). Piracy is defined as: > [@](#): > > (a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed: > > (i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft; > > (ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State; > > (b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft; > > (c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b). [Art. 101](http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm) So it doesn’t cover drug smuggling. With respect to drug smuggling, it says: > [@](#): > > Article108 > > Illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances > > 1. All States shall cooperate in the suppression of illicit traffic in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances engaged in by ships on the high seas contrary to international conventions. > > 2. Any State which has reasonable grounds for believing that a ship flying its flag is engaged in illicit traffic in narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances may request the cooperation of other States to suppress such traffic. This article has not been read to permit a non-flag state to intercept the a vessel in international waters. But the US intercepts them anyway. There are some good reasons for this: 1. The right violated is not the right of the individuals who will be prosecuted, but the right of the flag state. The flag state can waive its objections. [http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/5th/0120626cr0.htm](http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/5th/0120626cr0.htm) 2. The Supreme Court has suggested that prosecutions that violate general principles of international law are constitutional. [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=504&invol=655](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=504&invol=655) (complaints about violations of international law were to be addressed by the executive branch). Other countries have complained about the US’s broad and broadening extraterritorial application of its laws. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/9 "2005-11-01T04:53:46Z")
[Here is a classic case discussing the issues described above.](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=1st&navby=case&no=002372). _See also_, [United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances (1988)](http://www.unodc.org/pdf/convention_1988_en.pdf), Art. 17 (Flag state has primary jurisdiction over vessels bearing its flag) All that said, the article doesn’t say which flag the speedboat bore, if any. > [@](#): > > A Party which has reasonable grounds to suspect that a vessel flying its flag or not displaying a flag or marks of registry is engaged in illicit traffic may request the assistance of other Parties in suppressing its use for that purpose. The Parties so requested shall render such assistance within the means available to them. Drug treaty, Art. 17(2). As this discussion prepared for the Australian Parliament indicates: > [@](#): > > Article 17(2) of the United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances 19 December 1988 provides that ‘[a] Party which has reasonable grounds to suspect that a vessel flying its flag or not displaying a flag or marks of registry is engaged in illicit traffic may request the assistance of other Parties in suppressing its use for that purpose’. This has been interpreted as placing a ‘ship without nationality’ ‘in the same category as a ship in respect of which a State exercises jurisdiction by virtue of the fact that it sails under its flag, thereby implying that that flag State can take the same enforcement measures with respect to ships without nationality as it can with respect to ships flying its flag’: Roy Lee and Moritaka Hayashi (Ed), ‘Piracy, Drug Trafficking, and Other Crimes at Sea’, Title 15.B(1) in New Directions in the Law of the Sea: Global Developments, Oceania Publications, Dobs Ferry, New York, 1996. Whether or not this applies beyond this convention is open to question - it is generally the case that in the absence of a flag a ship is deemed to have the nationality of its owner: O’connell, Vol. II, op. cit., p 735. [http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bd/1999-2000/2000BD079.htm](http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bd/1999-2000/2000BD079.htm) So the British probably had good grounds to stop the speedboat, despite its presence in international waters. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/10 "2005-11-01T05:09:32Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > On the high seas, the seas beyond the 12 mile limit, only the flag state has jurisdiction (except for cases of piracy and slavery). I goofed. I forgot about the [contiguous zone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contiguous_zone). The contiguous zone is an area of ocean that can extend up to an additional 12 miles from the edge of the coastal state’s territorial waters. Within the contiguous zone, a nation can act to prevent violations of its environmental, customs, fiscal, or immigration laws, or to apprehend vessels suspected of violating them. [http://clinton4.nara.gov/CEQ/990902a.html](http://clinton4.nara.gov/CEQ/990902a.html) The US has claimed the full 12 miles. It’s not clear whether the UK has staked out its contiguous zone. _Compare_, [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html) (identifying US’s territorial sea claim and its contiguous sea claim) \*with \* [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html) (only identifying terrotorial sea for UK) \*and \* [http://www.indexmundi.com/united\_kingdom/maritime\_claims.html](http://www.indexmundi.com/united_kingdom/maritime_claims.html) (same). ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/11 "2005-11-01T05:16:28Z")
I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/12 "2005-11-01T05:31:19Z")
I’ll admit I’m a little surprised by this. Suppose Libertaria became a country and legalized all drugs. I’m out cruising in the middle of the ocean in my luxury yacht, the _SS Ayn Rand_, with a sack full of heroin I bought legally back home in Libertopolis. I can be stopped by a USN frigate and be arrested and have my ship and heroin confiscated because I violated the laws of the United States - a country I’m nowhere near and have no intent of going to? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/13 "2005-11-01T06:09:04Z")
As a practical matter, vessels at sea can be stopped if they lack national identity, claim a false (or try to conceal) their national identity, if the national authority authorizes the stop. So you see a fishy-looking fishing boat, you check the flag. You call the Panamanian Consul General in Miami. He tells you you can stop him. They you stop him. If he displays no national identity, you can stop him just for giggles. If they are suspected of piracy, slaving, illegal broadcasting, polluting (I think) or smuggling, you can stop him just for giggles. Of course I left Newport a long, long time ago. I am very rusty on the stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/14 "2005-11-01T06:18:32Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I’ll admit I’m a little surprised by this. Suppose Libertaria became a country and legalized all drugs. I’m out cruising in the middle of the ocean in my luxury yacht, the _SS Ayn Rand_, with a sack full of heroin I bought legally back home in Libertopolis. I can be stopped by a USN frigate and be arrested and have my ship and heroin confiscated because I violated the laws of the United States - a country I’m nowhere near and have no intent of going to? If the vessel was clearly identified as a Libertarian ship, then theoretically, the US could only arrest the vessel beyond the 24 mile limit of its contiguous zone and territorial see. Since US customs regulations prohibit the imporation of illegal drugs, you could be stopped and arrested in the contiguous zone. At any rate, beyond that limit, theoretically, the US couldn’t just stop you. They would need to proceed as **Paul in Saudi** has described. But the US has seized ships on the high seas under just these conditions, so if you want a prediction, I’d say that you are still at risk. If you were seized illegally, Libertopolis would probably try to resolve the matter diplomatically. So you might not be completely out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/seizing-drugs-in-international-waters/328829/15 "2005-11-01T06:36:26Z")
[A good case that shows what happens if a vessel’s crew does not produce registration documents.](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=11th&navby=case&no=994140MAN)