# Selective Magnet School in Virginia moving towards a lottery system **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347 "2020-10-06T15:59:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/261 "2020-10-14T20:25:54Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > The intent in this case is clear. They are trying to increase the black and hispanic population. A worthy goal that comes at a discriminatory price. > > This particular writer is a fairly active anti-asian academic. She and a colleague of hers in the gender/cultural studies department are two of the primary apologists of anti-asian discrimination in affirmative action. That is nice /s Do you have a cite for that, BTW there were more than just that writer in that cite. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > Lotteries are not evil. They are just a stupid way of selecting for academic merit. And when you go from a reasonably good way of selecting for academic merit to a stupid way and the end result is a tradeoff of 4 fewer asian students to achieve an increase of 1 black student 1 hispanic student and 2 white students, it is discriminatory against asians. Yep, not evil, just stupid. As usual that is just an opinion, it does not deny that lotteries are a way to deal with limited resources so as to be more fair. As I saw others comment, you should ask why is that those resources are limited, schools then need more help then to avoid the shortages. Trying to make this a wedge issue is what some are still trying to do. > **['Model Minority' Myth Again Used As A Racial Wedge Between Asians And Blacks](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/04/19/524571669/model-minority-myth-again-used-as-a-racial-wedge-between-asians-and-blacks)** > > The perception of universal success among Asian-Americans is being wielded to downplay racism's role in the persistent struggles of other minority groups — especially black Americans. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/262 "2020-10-14T20:31:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As long as you’re making a litany of false assertions about my views (not the first time you’ve falsely represented my views, and probably won’t be the last time), how about a cite for this one? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We shouldn’t pretend that disparities that are so often the same as they were 20 and 50 and 100 years ago are somehow attributable to random chance, or “culture”, or whatever, when the cause has been clear for years and years. Okay, I oversimplified, but you get the idea. Racism was the cause in the past so racism must be the cause today. Implying nothing has changed between then and now. Why do more Asian kids pass the test than white ones, iiandyiiii? Is it racism? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/263 "2020-10-14T21:12:02Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Okay, I oversimplified Or you got it wrong. No need to carry on when you so consistently mischaracterize what I say. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/264 "2020-10-14T21:37:25Z")
Why do more Asian kids pass the test than white ones, iiandyiiii? Is it racism? ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/265 "2020-10-14T23:47:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cite? From what I’ve read, the policy I support would result in very large statistical over-representation for Asian kids in this top school. If 70% of the individuals who can pass the merit-based entry criteria are Asian then the correct representation of Asians in the school is 70%, since it should include those specific people, and not including those people is an under-representation. You keep coming back to the notion that every institution must exactly reflect the racial demographics of the larger society (the word for this is “quotamongering”), then denying that you subscribe to any existing rationale for this belief and refusing to state what yours is. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/266 "2020-10-15T01:48:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Cite? From what I’ve read, the policy I support would result in very large statistical over-representation for Asian kids in this top school. Is eliminating the family reunification visa discriminatory against hispanics and asians? > [@DemonTree](#): > > What’s the god in this religion? I’m very suspicious of religions, and I don’t like what I have seen of CRT so far. Blasphemy! > [@DemonTree](#): > > If some organisation tried to change their entry criteria to reduce the number black people qualifying, it would be transparently obvious they were being racist, even if they had some other rationale. Asians are politically weak and therefore easy political targets. The woke left hasn’t been conditioned to see discrimination against asians as “real” discrimination because they model minority myth leads them into thinking its ok to oppress asians because they’re doing pretty well for themselves. > [@urbanredneck2](#): > > Thats ok for me. Particularly if 70% of the student do NOT have a 3.5 GPA. Like I said, if you don’t particularly care about having a school like tjhsst, then that’s fine. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Do you have a cite for that, BTW there were more than just that writer in that cite. I mean the one from university of maryland. She is an expert witness for harvard in the anti-asian discrimination lawsuit. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > As usual that is just an opinion, it does not deny that lotteries are a way to deal with limited resources so as to be more fair. Yes if you are distributing medical care or food. Lotteries are a horrible way to select for merit and presumably tjhsst is still trying to attract the best student body it can muster. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Trying to make this a wedge issue is what some are still trying to do. Janelle wong is the gender/cultural studies colleague of julie park at university of maryland I was talking about earlier. The two of them have made a cottage industry out of being asian faces that defend anti-asian discrimination. I am not making comparisons between asians and blacks. I am making comparisons between asians and whites. I am making comparisons between asians and hispanics. Janelle won wants the conversation to be about how unfair it is to comapre asians and blacks because those situations are clearly different but what unfair advantage do asians have over whites and hispanics? The fact that white people point at asian success and wag their finger at others does not mean that we must temper asian success. We’re not asking for special favors, we are asking you take your foot off our necks. The wedge is being built by people who discriminate in favor of blacks, whites and hispanics at the expense of asians. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Why do more Asian kids pass the test than white ones, iiandyiiii? Is it racism? Don’t bother asking, he’s not going to answer. Just like he won’t identify the unfair advantages that asians have over hispanics. He will likely divert the conversation by making veiled accusations of racism. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/267 "2020-10-15T01:51:18Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > the word for this is “quotamongering” I like the word but i think you might have invented it. Good luck getting a rationale, logic or analysis out of him. No really. Good luck. You will be lucky to get a list of woke catechisms. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/268 "2020-10-15T02:31:07Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I mean the one from university of maryland. She is an expert witness for harvard in the anti-asian discrimination lawsuit. That is nice, no cite then as I figure it out. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > Yes if you are distributing medical care or food. Lotteries are a horrible way to select for merit and presumably tjhsst is still trying to attract the best student body it can muster. And the changes are being made by the school, so yeah. (I think it is clear you are an ignorant of the latest changes to their proposal uh?) > [@damuriajashi](#): > > The wedge is being built by people who discriminate in favor of blacks, whites and hispanics at the expense of asians. Again that only shows that the ones that manipulate one minority against another are doing a good job with some. One should demand more resources so as to worry less about the wedge you are helping push through. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/269 "2020-10-15T04:43:43Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Good luck getting a rationale, logic or analysis out of him. > No really. Good luck. You will be lucky to get a list of woke catechisms. _ **Moderating** _ This kind of personalization is inappropriate for this forum. Knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/270 "2020-10-15T15:49:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And the changes are being made by the school, so yeah. (I think it is clear you are an ignorant of the latest changes to their proposal uh?) ROFLMAO. Are you talking about the 100 “competitive” spots out of 500? Who the heck competes for a spot at a school where 80% of the kids get selected by random? If I start a travel soccer team and select 12 of 15 players based on random draw from 90% of the people interested and 3 based on a tryout. Who the heck bothers trying out for my team? The good players would be better off joining the local high school team and skipping travel altogether or finding a different travel team. Random draw from 90% of the applicant pool is a horrible way to create a good team. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again that only shows that the ones that manipulate one minority against another are doing a good job with some. One should demand more resources so as to worry less about the wedge you are helping push through. That’s silly. This isn’t a resource issue. They are trying to appropriate tjhsst’s reputation for kids that can’t actually meet tjhsst standards. And in the process, they are destroying the very thing that makes tjhsst’s reputation desirable. The wedge isn’t between blacks and asians. It is mostly woke white people vs asians. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/271 "2020-10-15T16:14:01Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > ROFLMAO. Are you talking about the 100 “competitive” spots out of 500? Who the heck competes for a spot at a school where 80% of the kids get selected by random? Ignorance spotted there again. So yeah, you are not even calibrating your replies even after finding that you were wrong on the absolutes of your earlier say so’s. As noted, for many other public or private charter schools, as shown before, many do apply to be part of the lottery when there are limited spots. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > That’s silly. > This isn’t a resource issue. They are trying to appropriate tjhsst’s reputation for kids that can’t actually meet tjhsst standards. And in the process, they are destroying the very thing that makes tjhsst’s reputation desirable. > > The wedge isn’t between blacks and asians. It is mostly woke white people vs asians. More ignorance, you are now even denying that experts know that very unsavory groups are pushing that wedge issue. > **[The DOJ is suing Yale, accusing it of discriminating against Asian American...](https://www.businessinsider.com/department-justice-yale-asian-american-scholars-poc-against-each-other-2020-8)** > > The Trump administration DOJ's claim against Yale is just "political messaging for November," according to a senior counsel at the Brennan Center. > The Justice Department’s action against Yale resembles a recent case against Harvard University that also took aim at affirmative action policies. [Last year, a federal judge ruled against plaintiffs in a lawsuit that claimed Harvard discriminated against Asian-Americans](https://www.insider.com/judge-rules-in-favor-of-harvard-in-asian-discrimination-case-2019-10). The lawsuit was filed by Students for Fair Admissions, which is led by Edward Blum, a white politically conservative legal strategist. In February, the Justice Department [threw its support behind the lawsuit](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-files-amicus-brief-explaining-harvard-s-race-based-admissions-process) when it was sent to an appeals court. > a professor of sociology at Columbia University, told Insider by email in August that the DOJ’s accusation is another example of “a full-throttle attack on affirmative action, fueled by the false equivalency of race and minoritized status.” > > She said that, in reality, “affirmative action is not negative action against Asian Americans” — and most voters recognize that. [A 2016 AAPI data survey of Asian American attitudes](http://aapidata.com/blog/asianam-affirmative-action-surveys/) shows that nearly two-thirds of Asian Americans support affirmative action. > > “There’s so much evidence that these policies create the learning environment these students thrive in,” Wong said, adding that affirmative actions do not harm but benefit the AAPI community. > > The Department of Justice did not respond to Insider’s request to comment in August. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/272 "2020-10-15T16:49:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > “There’s so much evidence that these policies create the learning environment these students thrive in,” Wong said, adding that affirmative actions do not harm but benefit the AAPI community. Are you quoting janelle wong again? ROFLMAO. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/273 "2020-10-15T17:04:12Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Are you quoting janelle wong again? ROFLMAO. Well thank you for showing all the selective omissions made in your post, there were also Dona Kim Murphey, a former board member of the Korean American Association, Michael Li, senior counsel at The Brennan Center for Justice and Jennifer Lee, a professor of sociology at Columbia University. As it should had been unnecessary to mention, but it is clear in this case: > Scholars of the Asian American and Pacific Islanders community criticized the Justice Department’s accusation in August that Yale discriminates against Asian American and white applicants, pointing out the move just pits racial minorities against each other while ignoring the larger problem of legacy admissions. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/274 "2020-10-15T17:06:18Z")
And there’s also black Republicans who will cheerfully explain that allying with white supremacist gangs is a great idea, there’s Jews who speak at pro-Hamas rallies, there’s a group called “Latinos for Trump”…it changes nothing about the racism of these policies. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/275 "2020-10-15T17:13:07Z")
Let me know when they are in higher institutions of learning, or experts on the issue, the point stands. [damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi) is not the sole keeper of what Asians should think about that issue. Specially when you actually point at people that depend on ignorance for their misguided positions. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/276 "2020-10-15T17:36:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > the point stands You say this a lot, it is also wrong a lot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/277 "2020-10-15T17:43:33Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > You say this a lot, it is also wrong a lot. As I say, you are free to show the scholars or educational institutions how wrong they are, I’m sure they will see how wrong they are. /s But as usual I will not hold my breath on seeing you or others dealing with the institutions and even the Asian groups that figured out who is pushing the divisions. And I expect to see even less efforts from the pushers of the wedge issue to demand better from the ones that are dividing our nation. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/278 "2020-10-15T17:53:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Let me know when they are in higher institutions of learning, or experts on the issue, the point stands. [damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi) is not the sole keeper of what Asians should think about that issue. Specially when you actually point at people that depend on ignorance for their misguided positions. I never claimed to be the sole keeper of what asians should think about an issue. I am making a claim about what I think everyone should think about this issue regardless of race. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/279 "2020-10-15T18:54:20Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I never claimed to be the sole keeper of what asians should think about an issue. I am making a claim about what I think everyone should think about this issue regardless of race. A distinction without a difference. I prefer more educated opinions from Asians that are/were aware of the tricks racists like Trump like to do to set up minorities against each other. > **[Opinion | Trump’s Yale University attack: a Faustian bargain for Asian-Americans](https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opinion/article/3097580/asian-americans-trump-administrations-attack-affirmative-action)** > > Accusations of discrimination against Asian students by Yale University are just another instance of white American conservatives using the Asian ‘model minority’ myth to attack the interests of others. > - The Department of Justice accuses Yale University of discrimination, a move that may seem to benefit Asian students > - But it’s just another instance of white American conservatives using the Asian ‘model minority’ myth to attack the interests of others. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/280 "2020-10-15T19:10:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > A distinction without a difference. I prefer more educated opinions from Asians that are/were aware of the tricks racists like Trump like to do to set up minorities against each other. All you are saying is that you prefer the opinions of people that agree with you. That’s not really something i would crow about. People by and large do not think that race should supplant merit, this is a commonly held belief across all races. Where we see a divergence from this basic premise is along ideological lines at the far left and the far right, both want to elevate race over merit and for different reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347.md?page=15)