# Selective Magnet School in Virginia moving towards a lottery system **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347 "2020-10-06T15:59:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2020, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/341 "2020-10-21T16:00:36Z")
> Lowell has for decades admitted students based on a score that takes into account grade-point average and test results while setting aside a limited number of spots for qualified students from underrepresented schools, making it one of the best public high schools in the country. > > Because of the pandemic, however, there are no letter grades available from the spring due to a switch to a pass/fail system after the pandemic forced schools to close. In addition, the state canceled standardized tests. > > The change applies to the next admission cycle only, although several board members expressed interest in extending the change permanently. It’s only temporary… so far. Where are the speeches about toxic Asian culture? ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/342 "2020-10-24T00:02:37Z")
Chairman of the Boston School Committee forced to resign after being caught mocking Asian names during a meeting on removing merit-based admissions to magnet schools. Must be another coincidence. > **[Boston School Committee Chair Resigns After Outrage Over His Mocking Of Asian...](https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/10/22/loconto-mocking-resigns)** > > Loconto's remarks were caught during a recorded Zoom call and heard by dozens of parents and advocates discussing a controversial change to the city's prestigious "exam schools." The backlash came swiftly, with prominent community members flagging... ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/343 "2020-10-24T12:48:30Z")
Wow. Just wow. And this is a guy who’s supposedly campaigning against racism. Also, why was it necessary to hold the vote at 2 in the morning? ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/344 "2020-10-24T13:58:44Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Also, why was it necessary to hold the vote at 2 in the morning? This is a recurring part of the strategy. If you have a job to go to during the day then you are probably one of those strivers from the bad culture who is infecting the school system with racist notions of hard work and merit. Restricting participation in democracy to people who can withstand all-night struggle sessions gets better outcomes for the CRT crowd. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/345 "2020-10-24T15:54:38Z")
I read the linked article about the planned changes to the schools’ intake. Something I noticed: > As both an educator and exam school alumnus, José Valenzuela was glad to see Boston [walk away](https://www.wbur.org/edify/2020/02/05/boston-exam-school-admissions-test) from the ISEE, its longstanding entrance exam, back in February. > > “It was not really a great indicator of whether a student can do exam-school work,” said Valenzuela, now a teacher at Boston Latin Academy. “I don’t think it really indicates _anything_.” > The quota system was still in effect when Rey-Alicea — who now runs an education nonprofit — came to BLS. She credits her mother with helping secure her seat: she was engaged in her community, liked the idea of the classics and tracked down some free test prep. > > Rey-Alicea too supports the proposed pause in the testing regime. But she added that diverse admissions is only a start. > > “There’s so much debate around getting people in,” Rey-Alicea said. “When I was there, at least half of my classmates of color dropped out. It’s not just about getting in, it’s about finishing.” I wondered how many students drop out under the current regime, where only those who pass the test get in. I think this is the right data: [https://profiles.doe.mass.edu/dropout/default.aspx?orgcode=00350560&orgtypecode=6&leftNavId=15627&&fycode=2020](https://profiles.doe.mass.edu/dropout/default.aspx?orgcode=00350560&orgtypecode=6&leftNavId=15627&&fycode=2020) Only **one** student dropped out. If that is correct, then the test is doing a very good job of indicating whether a student can do exam-school work. It will be interesting to see what the drop out rates are for next year’s intake… @ZosterSandstorm, are you Asian? And is PoC generally understood as including Asians? ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/346 "2020-10-24T21:20:40Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > And is PoC generally understood as including Asians? Yes. It essentially means non-white, and includes Asians. The newer term BIPoC – Black, Indigenous People of Color – excludes Asians, at least in places where Asians are not indigenous. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/347 "2020-10-24T21:30:19Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > The newer term BIPoC – Black, Indigenous People of Color – excludes Asians, at least in places where Asians are not indigenous. Double-checking this, I’m reading this going both ways. I’ve specifically seen it used as exclusionary, but I’m also seeing people interpret it as inclusive, but with a different emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/348 "2020-10-24T21:39:11Z")
Who is included, then? I can’t keep up with these new acronyms, and round here _gingers_ are indigenous, so what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/349 "2020-10-24T21:50:02Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Who is included, then? People who are not white. At least here. I don’t know how “indigenous” would apply to Europe. I imagine a different acronym is used there. I have seen BAME, I think? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I can’t keep up with these new acronyms An enormous part of the point is that most people can’t keep up. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/350 "2020-10-24T22:50:43Z")
I’ve been reading up on it. Apparently it’s supposed to group people together while still recognising their different struggles. I think they may be trying too hard with this. BAME is more a term invented by the government to track diversity, and AFAIK not much used by the people so described. And ‘indigenous’ would most likely be brought up by right wing nationalist parties, so probably best avoided. > [@Hellestal](#): > > An enormous part of the point is that most people can’t keep up. The point of adopting new acronyms is to confuse people? Or to show that you are in the know? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/351 "2020-10-24T23:01:44Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > Chairman of the Boston School Committee forced to resign after being caught mocking Asian names during a meeting on removing merit-based admissions to magnet schools. > > Must be another coincidence. Do you have cite that he was involved with the CRT scholars? BTW it is not right to assume that anyone in favor of more inclusion would be in favor of that guy, I was glad that he was forced to resign. And also: It has to be noticed that reporting just that does leave out the important part that the Boston committee that voted unanimously for the change included an Asian American too. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/352 "2020-10-24T23:30:44Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The point of adopting new acronyms is to confuse people? Or to show that you are in the know? Both. If some weren’t confused, it wouldn’t reliably signal that others are in the know. The status distinction is important. Not everything, but an essential part of it. This happens not just with acronyms, but with all trendy fashionable language. And this isn’t just true of this one topic. It’s general, shows up everywhere among people who use words for a living. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/353 "2020-10-25T00:05:26Z")
I can’t find what he said. What was it? ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/354 "2020-10-25T00:18:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Do you have cite that he was involved with the CRT scholars? > > BTW it is not right to assume that anyone in favor of more inclusion would be in favor of that guy, I was glad that he was forced to resign. Any explanation for why your definitely not racist movement keeps attracting people who don’t bother disguising their bigotry towards Asians besides “what a weird, constantly occurring coincidence”? It seems like you’re in a real [Why Do All These Homosexuals Keep Sucking My Cock?](https://www.theonion.com/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock-1819584210) situation. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/355 "2020-10-25T00:19:17Z")
The audio is in the news story I linked above. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/356 "2020-10-25T02:18:52Z")
Of course it is noted that besides insulting you have to cut my quote so as not to deal with the Asian teacher and activist in the commission that voted for the change too, also missing is that I do not have to give you any explanation as I also mentioned that I’m glad that the racist is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/357 "2020-10-25T02:31:07Z")
Can’t get it to play. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/358 "2020-10-25T08:21:02Z")
From the video: > Elizabeth Sullivan (Executive Secretary): Our next speakers are Jennifer Hu, Yun Shen, Ling-Shen Dong and Michelle Donovan. > > Elizabeth Sullivan (Executive Secretary): If you could please raise your hands virtually? > > Elizabeth Sullivan (Executive Secretary): Ms Hu? > > Michael Loconto (Chair): That was like ‘Shaneah, Shania, Shanaynay and Booboo - and David’, right? > > Elizabeth Sullivan (Executive Secretary): Ms Hu? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/359 "2020-10-25T08:29:57Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Both. > > If some weren’t confused, it wouldn’t reliably signal that others are in the know. The status distinction is important. Not everything, but an essential part of it. > > This happens not just with acronyms, but with all trendy fashionable language. And this isn’t just true of this one topic. It’s general, shows up everywhere among people who use words for a living. That’s what I suspected. And all very well, until they start accusing anyone who hasn’t kept up of being racist, or at least suspect. ---
**Author:** ![ZosterSandstorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e0b2c6/32.png) [@ZosterSandstorm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZosterSandstorm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/360 "2020-10-25T10:23:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course it is noted that besides insulting you have to cut my quote so as not to deal with the Asian teacher and activist in the commission that voted for the change too, also missing is that I do not have to give you any explanation as I also mentioned that I’m glad that the racist is gone. You’re glad that someone who said the quiet part loud was forced to depart because you think that means you “do not have to give any explanation” for why your movement is full of these people. You’re wrong in this assertion, though - if you expect to hold up one side of a _debate_ about why completely overhauling the school admissions process to reduce the number of Asians receiving a benefit is a good thing, then you do in fact need to explain why people on your side keep getting caught in incidents of overt racism against Asians. And that explanation needs to be something better than “total coincidence.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347.md?page=19)