# Selective Service and an immigrant family... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214 "2010-04-06T23:29:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/1 "2010-04-06T23:29:59Z")
One of my officemate’s son is now trying to fill out a FAFSA form, and it asks about selective service. At 27, he never registered. He’s an American citizen, but as a family, they had no idea he was supposed to register. Now, they say he’s too old to register because he’s over 25, but he can’t turn in the FAFSA form without showing that he has signed up for selective service. Does anyone know what he can do? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/2 "2010-04-07T00:15:41Z")
He can try to get a Status Information Letter from the Secret Service. See here: [http://www.sss.gov/Status.html](http://www.sss.gov/Status.html) but I don’t think they’ll issue a letter like that to someone who was legally required to register and didn’t. I think, by not registering, he’s screwed himself when it comes to student loans, but he should get in touch with an attorney to see if there’s any way to straighten it out. But check here, as well: [http://www.sss.gov/FSmen.htm](http://www.sss.gov/FSmen.htm) which explains: > [@](#): > > If you have passed your 26th birthday and are now being denied eligibility for Federal student financial aid, Federal job training, or Federal employment, or are having difficulty obtaining U.S. citizenship because you failed to register, you have the the following recourse available to you: Explain to the official handling your case (for example, a student financial aid officer) the reasons for your failure to register with Selective Service. A non-registrant may not be denied any benefit if he can “show by a preponderance of evidence” that his failure to register was not knowing and willful. Offer as much evidence supporting your case, and as much detail, as possible. ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/3 "2010-04-07T00:45:41Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He can try to get a Status Information Letter from the Secret Service. See here: > > [http://www.sss.gov/Status.html](http://www.sss.gov/Status.html) > > but I don’t think they’ll issue a letter like that to someone who was legally required to register and didn’t. I think, by not registering, he’s screwed himself when it comes to student loans, but he should get in touch with an attorney to see if there’s any way to straighten it out. > > But check here, as well: > > [http://www.sss.gov/FSmen.htm](http://www.sss.gov/FSmen.htm) > > which explains: Thanks, Captain Amazing. That evidence part is really the problem. There’s no real evidence to show that as an immigrant, he and his family just didn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![pericynthion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@pericynthion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pericynthion)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/4 "2010-04-07T01:08:09Z")
In fact, immigrants are specifically required to register for selective service, whether as legal permanent residents or naturalized citizens. ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/5 "2010-04-07T01:12:56Z")
> [@pericynthion](#): > > In fact, immigrants are specifically required to register for selective service, whether as legal permanent residents or naturalized citizens. Isn’t every male specifically required to register, immigrant or not? In any case, I’m not suggesting that he wasn’t required to register, just that they had no idea. Not that that excuses them. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/6 "2010-04-07T01:29:03Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Thanks, Captain Amazing. > > That evidence part is really the problem. There’s no real evidence to show that as an immigrant, he and his family just didn’t know. If you read on in the link, it says that the Selective Service doesn’t make the determination, but the Financial Aid Officer at the school makes it. These people aren’t robots. I am regularly in contact with this person at the school I plan to attend next fall. In fact, I’m sure you could email this person right now and pose the question, asking him/her what type of documentation you should gather. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/7 "2010-04-07T04:34:31Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > Isn’t every male specifically required to register, immigrant or not?.. Yes, including illegal aliens. AFAIK the only exceptions are for diplomatic staff & dependents, and foreign students on educational visas. Many states just automatically register any male who get’s a driver’s licence or registers to voted. I never actually registered; I just got a letter from SSS “thanking _me_ for registering” with an enclosed wallet card. ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/8 "2010-04-07T20:06:28Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Yes, including illegal aliens. AFAIK the only exceptions are for diplomatic staff & dependents, and foreign students on educational visas. Many states just automatically register any male who get’s a driver’s licence or registers to voted. I never actually registered; I just got a letter from SSS “thanking _me_ for registering” with an enclosed wallet card. So is it possible he’s registered and doesn’t even know it? Is there a way to check? He has a driver’s license. (I know you didn’t mean every state, but do a lot of states do it that way?) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/9 "2010-04-07T21:10:14Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > That evidence part is really the problem. There’s no real evidence to show that as an immigrant, he and his family just didn’t know. And you expect us to believe that? Or rather, expect the Selective Service or a college financial officer to believe it? I don’t watch much TV, but there are frequent ads about the requirement to register. Including ads on the foreign language stations. Did this family never watch TV? There are posters on the wall at the Post Office – did this family never send any mail? This requirement is mentioned in the materials provided to immigrants, when they go through the immigration/registration process. Including specific mention that it applies to immigrants, even if they aren’t yet citizens. Did this immigrant family not actually go through the legal immigration process? There are announcements at high schools; they even pass lists of students turning 18 on to the Selective Service, who send out notices. Did no one from this family ever attend high school? The Selective Service buys lists of kids from businesses like Baskin-Robbins that have a ‘Birthday Club’ sign-up, and sends out notices to kids when they are about to turn 18. Did no one from this family ever sign up for a birthday club? The idea that this family “just didn’t know” is hardly believable. If you want to say that they did know, but just ignored it, that would be believable. So now he is left to explain why he didn’t register, and try to get an exception letter or whatever. But starting out that process by lying that “I didn’t know that I had to register” isn’t going to help him much! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/10 "2010-04-07T21:17:34Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > …The idea that this family “just didn’t know” is hardly believable…! I registered back when I was supposed to, but I’m not at all surprised that many young people today don’t know they’re required to register. Selective Service has a pretty low profile all in all, IMHO, and other than a minor controversy back during the 2004 campaign as to whether or not Bush was going to reinstate the draft due to recruiting difficulties for the Iraq War, it’s very rarely in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/11 "2010-04-07T22:04:13Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The idea that this family “just didn’t know” is hardly believable. > If you want to say that they did know, but just ignored it, that would be believable. > So now he is left to explain why he didn’t register, and try to get an exception letter or whatever. But starting out that process by lying that “I didn’t know that I had to register” isn’t going to help him much! If this sounds nasty, I’m sorry. Personally, I’m opposed to the draft, and I oppose these laws that tie student financial aid, etc. to registration for the draft. But I’m just saying that starting out by saying “I didn’t know…” is not a very helpful appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/12 "2010-04-07T22:34:37Z")
> [@gitfiddle](#): > > So is it possible he’s registered and doesn’t even know it? Is there a way to check? If he wants to know if he’s registered, he should go here: [https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfVerification.aspx](https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfVerification.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/13 "2010-04-08T00:23:08Z")
[aside]I had no idea Selective Service existed, though I wouldn’t really be expected to know, what with me being female and Canadian and all. You’d think I would have come across it on American TV or something at some point, but I haven’t, or if I did, I didn’t understand it enough to remember it. There has never been any peace-time conscription in Canada, and it was an incredibly divisive issue when it came up during the two world wars. I’m now spending way too much time on Wikipedia. Fascinating stuff![/aside] ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/14 "2010-04-08T01:41:57Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > And you expect us to believe that? Or rather, expect the Selective Service or a college financial officer to believe it? > > I don’t watch much TV, but there are frequent ads about the requirement to register. Including ads on the foreign language stations. Did this family never watch TV? > > There are posters on the wall at the Post Office – did this family never send any mail? > > This requirement is mentioned in the materials provided to immigrants, when they go through the immigration/registration process. Including specific mention that it applies to immigrants, even if they aren’t yet citizens. Did this immigrant family not actually go through the legal immigration process? > > There are announcements at high schools; they even pass lists of students turning 18 on to the Selective Service, who send out notices. Did no one from this family ever attend high school? > > The Selective Service buys lists of kids from businesses like Baskin-Robbins that have a ‘Birthday Club’ sign-up, and sends out notices to kids when they are about to turn 18. Did no one from this family ever sign up for a birthday club? > > The idea that this family “just didn’t know” is hardly believable. > If you want to say that they did know, but just ignored it, that would be believable. > So now he is left to explain why he didn’t register, and try to get an exception letter or whatever. But starting out that process by lying that “I didn’t know that I had to register” isn’t going to help him much! Having lived in several countries quite different from my own, with languages quite different from mine (about as different as they come), I find it quite easy to believe that someone could have missed something like this. There are a huge number of factors that could lead to a family, who are settling in a place this foreign and trying keep up with the larger, more constant demands that daily life entails, to have missed something like signing up for selective service. Maybe that’s just me. Again, I’m not making excuses. I’m asking about if what they say is the case, how can I help them figure out what to do. I’m certainly not interested in your view of how unlikely it is. ---
**Author:** ![gitfiddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@gitfiddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gitfiddle)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/15 "2010-04-08T01:46:30Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > [aside]I had no idea Selective Service existed, though I wouldn’t really be expected to know, what with me being female and Canadian and all. You’d think I would have come across it on American TV or something at some point, but I haven’t, or if I did, I didn’t understand it enough to remember it. There has never been any peace-time conscription in Canada, and it was an incredibly divisive issue when it came up during the two world wars. I’m now spending way too much time on Wikipedia. Fascinating stuff![/aside] In discussing this with my colleague, I’ve also gotten to thinking of how strange it is. I was going to reference [this](http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/coming_soon/4659) interesting article from last year about possibly reinstating the draft and allowing for different kinds of service, but Foreign Policy says it’s not there right now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/16 "2010-04-09T19:22:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > If he wants to know if he’s registered, he should go here: > > [https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfVerification.aspx](https://www.sss.gov/RegVer/wfVerification.aspx) I was about to say this. All you need is last name, SSN and date of birth. [SSS.gov](http://SSS.gov) is actually a pretty useful sight for all these questions. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/17 "2010-04-09T20:13:35Z")
“Gotta go down … to the poooooost office …” Guess they stopped running those p.s.a.s. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/18 "2010-04-09T20:40:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > And you expect us to believe that? Or rather, expect the Selective Service or a college financial officer to believe it? This happens ALL the time, and my office frequently has to write explanations when people in this situation apply for naturalization. Sometimes it works, and the immigration officer believes the person and lets him go on with his life. > [@](#): > > I don’t watch much TV, but there are frequent ads about the requirement to register. Including ads on the foreign language stations. Did this family never watch TV? I was born and raised in the U.S. and have never once seen a TV ad about Selective Service registration. > [@](#): > > There are posters on the wall at the Post Office – did this family never send any mail? It’s entirely possible to send mail without setting foot in a Post Office, and It’s entirely possible to set foot in a Post Office without seeing a Selective Service poster. Have you memorized the FBI Ten Most Wanted list? I sure haven’t. > [@](#): > > This requirement is mentioned in the materials provided to immigrants, when they go through the immigration/registration process. Including specific mention that it applies to immigrants, even if they aren’t yet citizens. Did this immigrant family not actually go through the legal immigration process? Ummm, cite? I’ve been working in the immigration field for almost 20 years in various capacities and have prepared countless green card applications. The [current version](http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81807.pdf)of the immigrant visa application form specifically states that “completion of this form by persons required by law to register with the Selective Service System (males 18 through 25 years of age) constitutes such registration in accordance with the Military Selective Service Act.” It’s buried at the bottom of the fine print at the bottom of page 2. How old was he when he immigrated? He may already be registered and not know it. Alternately, well, depending on how old he was, did he even sign the immigrant visa application form himself? Parents generally sign for their kids when they are below a certain age (usually 14). And I can totally see a situation in which parents, perhaps not speaking English very well (or at all), just didn’t pay attention to that part. You may think it’s odd, but it happens all the time. (Do you read every single word of every form you ever sign?) > [@](#): > > So now he is left to explain why he didn’t register, and try to get an exception letter or whatever. But starting out that process by lying that “I didn’t know that I had to register” isn’t going to help him much! He may very well not be lying. And in fact, he may already be registered without realizing it. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/19 "2010-04-10T05:55:48Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > [aside]I had no idea Selective Service existed, though I wouldn’t really be expected to know, what with me being female and Canadian and all. You’d think I would have come across it on American TV or something at some point, but I haven’t, or if I did, I didn’t understand it enough to remember it. There has never been any peace-time conscription in Canada, and it was an incredibly divisive issue when it came up during the two world wars. I’m now spending way too much time on Wikipedia. Fascinating stuff![/aside] In Toronto , I’ve seen the commercials for the selective service. During the Reagan presidency , they were on about every tenth commercial. This was on American channels. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214/20 "2010-04-10T06:08:31Z")
California, at least not two years ago when I applied for a replacement license, doesn’t “automatically” register someone when they get a driver license. The application form has a section specifially asking the applicant if he wishes to be registered. The applicant must tick the “yes” box for the DMV to send the registration information. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-service-and-an-immigrant-family/535214.md?page=2)