# Self aiming rifle that 'turns novices into experts' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352 "2013-05-25T22:33:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/41 "2013-05-28T13:19:41Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Nitpick: > > .308 Winchester is [almost identical](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester) to 7.62x51mm NATO. Can be fired interchangeably. > > You probably meant .308 to 5.56(.223)? Or [7.62 x 39mm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x39), a popular medium-game cartridge. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/42 "2013-05-28T13:46:01Z")
I’m not seeing a problem here. Even if the price falls to $2000. Because it is very simple to Lo-Jack the hardware/software that does all the adjustments to take a GPS fix and report to whomever every time a shot is fired. Hell, it would be simple to make it check in every 2 minutes that it’s turned on. You can bet that ATFE will have regulations in place that will do just that long before these rifles ever see civilian ownership. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/43 "2013-05-28T14:46:47Z")
I wonder if the targeting laser can see through glass? That is, would it target something inside a room or the surface of the window? ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/44 "2013-05-28T15:38:23Z")
nitpick: > [@Declan](#): > > Step down the fire power from 308 to 7.62 and remote in and dispatch coyotes or what ever varmint is hassling the cattle. .308 is 7.62mm; the OP rifle is a .338 Lapua which is a specifically designed extreme range sniper round and a whole lot more powerful than a .308. For a varmint rifle, you’d want something more in the 5.56mm (.223) caliber range; first of all, the ammo’s cheaper, and second of all you’d get less over-penetration thus risking your cattle less, and third if you shot a coyote, fox, or other medium varmint with a 7.62 you’d not have a lot left to clean up - head and feet would be about all that was left. /nitpick And on review, never mind - Toofs beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/45 "2013-05-28T16:21:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’m not seeing a problem here. Even if the price falls to $2000. Because it is very simple to Lo-Jack the hardware/software that does all the adjustments to take a GPS fix and report to whomever every time a shot is fired. Hell, it would be simple to make it check in every 2 minutes that it’s turned on. You can bet that ATFE will have regulations in place that will do just that long before these rifles ever see civilian ownership. Seems like an excellent idea, if only because I bet people who spend 22k on a gun are going to want to read over the system configurations of their shots on the web afterward, but it’s not going to keep people from using it to commit crimes, if they want to. Within a few weeks at most, I would expect to see a cracked version of the aiming software online that you can download and install in your gun, in which the GPS check-in is disabled? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/46 "2013-05-28T18:55:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Reading the article the “wind was blowing like crazy”, the shooter had never shot a rifle before in his life and it seems he hit the target on his first try. They waited for the wind to drop. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/47 "2013-05-28T23:48:42Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I’d guess, that in a city environment you’d be lucky to hear a rifle that was fired from inside a room 1000 metres away. Um…wouldn’t people near the room where the shooter is firing from hear it? If it were actually a problem, cities would probably start installing [acoustic sniper detection systems](http://www.cetci.com.cn/article_product.aspx?id=619). [Oh wait…they already are.](http://safetydynamics.net/) > [@chappachula](#): > > When 3d printers make it easy, people will use them to make guns. Why bother making a John Malovich plastic derringer when it’s relatively easy just to buy a Glock 17? Apparently it’s not that hard to make a working firearm. According to the HBO show VICE, they have warehouses in the Philippines where peasants grind out AKs and automatic pistols from scrap metal, some basic metalworking tools and some parts templates so they can go to war with each other at every election. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/48 "2013-05-29T01:20:51Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Nitpick: > > .308 Winchester is [almost identical](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester) to 7.62x51mm NATO. Can be fired interchangeably. > > You probably meant .308 to 5.56(.223)? I believe the .308 is to the 7.62x51 what the .223 is to the 5.56. 7.62 usually refers to the AK47 round not the M-14 round. > [@Miltonyz](#): > > For less then 500 dollars you could purchase a rifle and scope combo that could easily hit a man sized target at over a hundred yards. You could get a savage combo for $350 a couple of years ago. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yes the scope is expensive but then once upon a time a gun, any gun, was very expensive. In time they became inexpensive and ubiquitous. I would agree except that optics never seem to get very cheap. Instead we develop alternative technologies that substitute for them. > [@](#): > > As for estimating wind speed and humidity and all that you can buy a handheld device that does it for you for less than $100. I think you are talking about a range finder. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is there anything short of a Doppler radar installation(if that) that can judge the wind speed for the entire 1000 yards? Something hand held? I don’t think so. That would be a very useful invention. PGA golfers adjust for winds too, I don’t think they use a gizmo. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/49 "2013-05-29T01:23:14Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > [Here](http://www.eurooptic.com/accuracy-international-ax338-2.aspx) is a link to a site selling the rifle that is used as the base for their project. > > [Here](http://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-mark-4-6-5-20x50mm-lr-t-m1-rifle-scope.html) is a scope that was recommended by the fellows on the site that I linked to. Is that the only gun ever that can use this scope? Can it never happen that the scope can be adapted to “lesser” weapons that have an accurate range of only 500 yards? Sure…shooting 1000 yards accurately is awesome but I suspect most assassins would be content with a guaranteed kill shot from 500 yards with a rifle that costs a fraction of the thousand yard one. Each yard of accuracy is likely to be a case of diminishing returns. That is, each yard of accuracy beyond a certain point costs more and more to achieve. I suspect most would be happy with something that cost $2000 and guaranteed a hit at 500 yards than spending 10x that for 1000 yards. As for rifle scoped you can buy them for a couple hundred dollars. How much of this fancy scope is top notch, expensive optics and how much of the cost is fancy software and a lot of testing to make it work right? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/50 "2013-05-29T01:24:38Z")
I would have thought the bigger concern would be if a smaller shorter range version using the same concepts could be made, ie a pistol accurate to 200 yards or the like. It would probably be cheaper as well, as the level of inherent accuracy needed would be far lower. Edit: hah just beaten. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/51 "2013-05-29T01:30:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > They waited for the wind to drop. Which apparently the scope/gun knew. He pulled the trigger and the gun waited to fire till conditions were optimal. When it saw a momentary dip in wind speed and the dot was on target it fired. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/52 "2013-05-29T02:32:32Z")
Chris Kyle, who is deeply missed in these parts, said he made a kill shot at close to a mile but didn’t take much credit for it because the technology did it. This might be mentioned in “American Sniper” but I haven’t read it yet. No surprise this tech is entering the civilian world, sure to get a lot cheaper as it becomes more powerful, that’s what tech does. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/53 "2013-05-29T03:16:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Um…wouldn’t people near the room where the shooter is firing from hear it? > > If it were actually a problem, cities would probably start installing [acoustic sniper detection systems](http://www.cetci.com.cn/article_product.aspx?id=619). > > [Oh wait…they already are.](http://safetydynamics.net/) > > . I’d imagine they would hear - BUT, as it’s so far removed from the result, is less of an issue - and also, if it’s any sort of industrial area the shot would be pretty well muffled and could be further “hidden” by loud music or similar ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/54 "2013-05-29T15:16:49Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > I would have thought the bigger concern would be if a smaller shorter range version using the same concepts could be made, ie a pistol accurate to 200 yards or the like. It would probably be cheaper as well, as the level of inherent accuracy needed would be far lower. > > Edit: hah just beaten. > > Otara I don’t think this would work with a handgun, the scope setup is pretty big. Big enough taht you might as well use a rifle. Even if it got smaller, the way it works doesn’t seem geared towards anything other than sniping. The way I read the article. You tag a target with a laser, it takes a picture and when you pull the trigger it waits until the image in your scope matches the image it took when you tagged your target, when these two match, it shoots. It seems like a somewhat lengthy process. > [@slowlearner](#): > > Chris Kyle, who is deeply missed in these parts, said he made a kill shot at close to a mile but didn’t take much credit for it because the technology did it. This might be mentioned in “American Sniper” but I haven’t read it yet. No surprise this tech is entering the civilian world, sure to get a lot cheaper as it becomes more powerful, that’s what tech does. One day, this tech may lead to auto-fire guns then the machines will take over. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/55 "2013-05-30T05:28:26Z")
Similar to whack a mole it was more about scaled down devices that achieve a similar goal at shorter ranges and lower cost - the scope could presumably be smaller because its not trying to get to a km+ for instance, wind would be less of an issue, etc. Otara ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/56 "2013-05-30T09:34:03Z")
I had a thought this morning about this rifle: Doesn’t this tech make it possible for a drone to hit its target with a rifle round instead of a missile? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/57 "2013-05-30T10:07:10Z")
Maybe not the OP tech, but the self-guiding bullets thing mentioned upthread might. But I’m sure with a lot of the drone strikes all that is known is that the target is in a given vehicle say, hence the collaterals. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/58 "2013-05-30T15:08:18Z")
Isn’t firearm accuracy a very good thing? What’s the problem here? The issue I’m concerned with is the software, and the waiting period between pulling the trigger and firing the shot. What happens if the trigger is pulled, and while waiting for the right conditions, the gunman forgets and gets up and walks away? Who fired the shot? What if another person walks into the cross hairs between pulling the trigger and firing the shot? Is there active guidance on these rounds (I’ve seen weapons that have these, but I don’t think this rifle does), or do we trust that the 1000 yards between the shooter and the target will remain clear throughout the whole flight? “Turning novices into experts” is a great thing, and a laudable goal. Imagine if we could eliminate stray bullets, innocent bystanders and collateral damage? Computers firing guns is more concerning though. I’m not against it per se, but it does require more testing and discussion I think. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/59 "2013-05-30T15:18:49Z")
Even if the shooter stays in position, a delay before firing could still be problematic. If the gun fires when you pull the trigger, you’re expecting it. You’re braced for the recoil and for the sudden BANG. What happens when you’re not expecting it? A bruised shoulder? A reflexive second pull of the trigger? Jumping and bumping your head on your cover? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352/60 "2013-05-30T17:16:23Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > What happens if the trigger is pulled, and while waiting for the right conditions, the gunman forgets and gets up and walks away? His finger is not on the trigger and it will not fire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-aiming-rifle-that-turns-novices-into-experts/659352.md?page=4)