# "self control" tattoo **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502 "2007-06-10T21:01:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/1 "2007-06-10T21:01:04Z")
I would like to get the Japanese character for “self control” tattooed on my ankle. I think I’ve found it, but how can I be sure it’s authentic? Is it silly? Would it be the same thing as a Japanese person getting the actual English words “self control” as a tatto. Are there any plants/animals or other symbols that mean “self control?” Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/2 "2007-06-10T21:06:16Z")
I can’t answer your other questions, but my question to you is why Japanese? “Because everyone else is doing it” and “Because the English words would look silly” both strike me as poor reasons to choose a Japanese symbol. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/3 "2007-06-10T21:11:24Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] I can’t answer your other questions, but my question to you is why Japanese? “Because everyone else is doing it” and “Because the English words would look silly” both strike me as poor reasons to choose a Japanese symbol. [/QUOTE] Why not “because Asian logograms make cooler looking tats than english letters?” ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/4 "2007-06-10T21:19:11Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Why not “because Asian logograms make cooler looking tats than english letters?” [/QUOTE] One should not permanently mark one’s skin to be “cool”. Swap “cooler looking” with “more aesthetically pleasing” and I’ll only roll my eyes a little. It should be noted that I am not a big fan of tats. I’m not going to tell you that you shouldn’t get one, but I do think that you should think twice or three times before you get a tattoo–especially in a style which is extremely popular at the moment that you are thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/5 "2007-06-10T21:23:00Z")
[QUOTE=Eureka] One should not permanently mark one’s skin to be “cool”. Swap “cooler looking” with “more aesthetically pleasing” and I’ll only roll my eyes a little. It should be noted that I am not a big fan of tats. I’m not going to tell you that you shouldn’t get one, but I do think that you should think twice or three times before you get a tattoo–especially in a style which is extremely popular at the moment that you are thinking about it. [/QUOTE] Huh? Asian ideograms look cooler than english letters in almost any context. Their writing is more beautiful, ours is more efficient. If you don’t like tatoos, by all means don’t get one. I don’t see why you need to denounce someone who wants one. How do you know how much thought she’s put into it? ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/6 "2007-06-10T21:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Huh? Asian ideograms look cooler than english letters in almost any context. Their writing is more beautiful, ours is more efficient. If you don’t like tatoos, by all means don’t get one. I don’t see why you need to denounce someone who wants one. How do you know how much thought she’s put into it? [/QUOTE] Well put, Larry! I’ve actually put quite a bit of thought into this and am not doing it because it’s trendy. It would be a daily and permanent reminder of something which will always be an issue for me. I don’t care if it means anything to anyone else! Most people probably won’t even notice or care. I didn’t start this thread to inspire a pro/con tattoo argument, I just wanted opinions regarding how to find a source for “authentic” symbols or more accurate representations of “self control.” Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/7 "2007-06-10T21:33:26Z")
[QUOTE=Hazle Weatherfield] Well put, Larry! I’ve actually put quite a bit of thought into this and am not doing it because it’s trendy. It would be a daily and permanent reminder of something which will always be an issue for me. I don’t care if it means anything to anyone else! Most people probably won’t even notice or care. I didn’t start this thread to inspire a pro/con tattoo argument, I just wanted opinions regarding how to find a source for “authentic” symbols or more accurate representations of “self control.” Thank you. [/QUOTE] Yeah, sorry I can’t help answer your actual question. 🙂 Someone who can will hopefully be along. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/8 "2007-06-10T21:35:30Z")
Is it silly? IMHO? Since you asked? Yeah, it is. Silly and lame. One, you’re following the crowd with the Japanese lettering. Unless you’re a huge fan of Japanese culture, I can’t see what the purpose would be. (And you’re going to have to suffer through a lifetime of “How do you know that’s what it says?”) Two, why “self-control”? It seems kind of random, and it may have an ironic effect a few years down the line (_I really wish I had shown some self-control before I got this tattoo_). Third, ankle tatoos always look a little strange to me. From far away, it’s not clear that they are a tattoo. They look like a scar. And it may be hard to hide if you ever have to dress up. You shouldn’t care what I say, though. I’m kind of conservative when it comes to things like tattoos. ---
**Author:** ![Foldup\_Rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Foldup\_Rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foldup_Rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/9 "2007-06-10T22:06:16Z")
:dubious: Do it or don’t do it for you, and not because other people think it’s cool or stupid or overdone or in a funny spot. [This guy](http://hanzismatter.com/) runs a blog about debunking tattoos with foreign characters in them. He’s pretty good about answering email questions, although I imagine he gets about a trillion of them. He’d be my first stop if I couldn’t find a trustworthy person who was actually Japanese or could read it fluently. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/10 "2007-06-10T22:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] Is it silly? IMHO? Since you asked? Yeah, it is. Silly and lame. One, you’re following the crowd with the Japanese lettering. Unless you’re a huge fan of Japanese culture, I can’t see what the purpose would be. (And you’re going to have to suffer through a lifetime of “How do you know that’s what it says?”) Two, why “self-control”? It seems kind of random, and it may have an ironic effect a few years down the line (_I really wish I had shown some self-control before I got this tattoo_). Third, ankle tatoos always look a little strange to me. From far away, it’s not clear that they are a tattoo. They look like a scar. And it may be hard to hide if you ever have to dress up. You shouldn’t care what I say, though. I’m kind of conservative when it comes to things like tattoos. [/QUOTE] I wish I hadn’t said “silly!” It has caused some misunderstanding. Larry said it best in post number five. I just meant “silly” as in when you see someone from another country wearing a t-shirt or something that, in English is nonsense or offensive. That’s all. Again, I wasn’t trying to start an argument for or against tattoos. Oh, well… ---
**Author:** ![Apricot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@Apricot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apricot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/11 "2007-06-10T22:31:02Z")
I think what you need to find out is if the phrase “Self-Control” has a similar concept in Japanese. If there isn’t one, or the concept is dissimilar to that in english, I wouldn’t recommend the tattoo. The last thing you want is the tattoo equivilent of Engrish on your body. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/12 "2007-06-10T23:57:25Z")
I have a tattoo with Chinese characters. I originally wanted the word “transformation” but after doing a lot of research and talking to a lot of people (including the guy from the website posted above), I ended up with 4 characters - a Chinese proverb. I think this is a great site: [http://www.oneaday.org/archives.html](http://www.oneaday.org/archives.html) Some of the good advice I got was to pick an attractive font - a native speaker told me the fonts on the proverb website looked like “a typewriter.” I don’t really want to get into the whole “why I picked Chinese characters.” The tattoo is for me, I love it and I really don’t have to explain it to anybody. I love it just as much today as when I got it 2 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/13 "2007-06-11T00:18:48Z")
Maybe Cyrillic instead of Japanese, if you want a foreign alphabet? ---
**Author:** ![Yag\_Rannavach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/858c86/32.png) [@Yag\_Rannavach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yag_Rannavach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/14 "2007-06-11T00:23:07Z")
I’m not sure exactly how far this will get you, but you might want to find a couple local tatoo shops and ask them what symbols/animals/plants/whatever might represent self-control. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/15 "2007-06-11T00:24:16Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Maybe Cyrillic instead of Japanese, if you want a foreign alphabet? [/QUOTE] You wouldn’t happen to be the granddaughter of [Princess Anastasia](http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/hornton/890/romanovpics/anastasia.jpg), now would you? 🙂 I jest. Cyrillic is a beautiful looking language and easy on the ears. It is a good idea, all kidding aside. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/16 "2007-06-11T00:27:03Z")
I can’t vouch for its accuracy, but maybe this [calligraphy site](http://www.orientaloutpost.com/self_control.php) can confirm the image you already have for the term. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/17 "2007-06-11T00:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse] You wouldn’t happen to be the granddaughter of [Princess Anastasia](http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/hornton/890/romanovpics/anastasia.jpg), now would you? 🙂 I jest. Cyrillic is a beautiful looking language and easy on the ears. It is a good idea, all kidding aside. [/QUOTE] Ha ha, very funny. And your picture didn’t work. 😉 That’s why I suggested it-you see Asian characters everywhere, but not much Cyrillic or Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Zambini57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4491bb/32.png) [@Zambini57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zambini57)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/18 "2007-06-11T00:29:05Z")
I’m a fan of the “hanzismatter” site mentioned by Foldup Rabbit. I check it out frequently because it’s always good for a laugh. Here’s what happens when someone wants a tattoo specifying a concept like “self control.” Sometimes, the concept doesn’t translate well into Japanese. Sure, they recognize what self-control is, but they call it something else, so there may not be a single Kanji character denoting it. So the tattooee decides to get the Kanji for “self” and pair it up with the one for “control”. However, to a Japanese, this may have a meaning completely different than what the tattooee had in mind. (Assuming the tattooer doesn’t ink the characters backwards or upside down, as frequently happens). To a Japanese, “self” and “control” paired together could mean anything from “paralyzed” to “toilet trained”. (I’m just using this as an example, it’s possible the tranlation could be meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/19 "2007-06-11T00:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=Hazle Weatherfield] I would like to get the Japanese character for “self control” tattooed on my ankle. I think I’ve found it, but how can I be sure it’s authentic? Is it silly? Would it be the same thing as a Japanese person getting the actual English words “self control” as a tatto. Are there any plants/animals or other symbols that mean “self control?” Thanks! [/QUOTE] [relevant hijack]Have you ever seen the cover of King Crimson’s album “Discipline”? It’s a beautiful Celtic knot. I got it tattooed on my back, but because I like the image and not for the literal meaning.[/rh] I’m tempted to say there must be something in Japanese culture that values self-control. i think a more modest claim would be that some word or phrase from a Japanese martial arts discipline (there’s that word again) would reflect your intent. Best of luck in your search. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502/20 "2007-06-11T01:05:28Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I can’t vouch for its accuracy, but maybe this [calligraphy site](http://www.orientaloutpost.com/self_control.php) can confirm the image you already have for the term. [/QUOTE] My first post wasn’t explicit enough, I fear. The linked page purports to display the terms “self control” and “discipline” in chinese and japanese characters. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-control-tattoo/407502.md?page=2)