# Self-declared Music Snobs - a challenge **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732 "2004-01-09T22:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/61 "2004-01-14T17:46:18Z")
Spin Doctors! These guys were largely written off as one-hit wonders after failing to have a follow-up hit on the monster level of “Little Miss Can’t Be Wrong.” But they followed up the smart, funky, tuneful, and all-around-likable-as-hell _Pocketful of Kryptonite_ with three extremely accomplished studio albums and one nifty live odds and sods collection. Chris Barron’s lyrics were always clever and wonderfully literate (if he strays into pretension on occasion, he quickly reins himself in) and his knack for melody seems effortless. As for the instrumentalists, they make tight and groovy rock-- no frills, no ham-fisted political posturing, and dear God THANK YOU no self-obsessed, nauseatingly introspective crap that so many bands in the nineties adhered to as if their lives depended on it. (Okay, I guess that slips back to talking about their lyrics, not the instrumentation, sorry.) Anyway. Great f–cking band. Was genuinely crestfallen when I’d heard they’d thrown the towel in, though I understand Chris Barron is doing some more-than-respectable solo stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/62 "2004-01-14T17:49:16Z")
P.S. As an unrepentant Bruce Dickinson fanatic, I also wish to salute **Henry Spencer** on his nomination. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/63 "2004-01-14T19:43:20Z")
I’m going to second **spoke-**'s reclamation of ELO. Put a copy of _Time_ on, listen to the whole weird story arc, and tell me that’s not a damned good album. Since my defense of **Dolby** went well enough, I’m going to take on the daunting task of bringing **Elton John** back into music snobdom. Once a singer has been ripped apart on South Park, you’d think that music snobs would abandon him forever. And based on his recent career, they’d be right to do so. Once he and Bernie Taupin had split, Elton has produced nothing that really stands apart from the pack of pop poseurs. But rewind to the '70s, and ohmygod. The catalog they produced is astonishing. Of course, we’re all familiar with the hits: \*Your Song, Rocket Man, Daniel, Tiny Dancer,\*etcetera, etcetera. It’s easy to dismiss Elton based on the insanely familiar nature of these songs; once you’ve heard something eight million freaking times, it can’t be good anymore. Not without drugs. What gets forgotten is the context of these hits, the albums from which they came. Let’s take, for instance, _Rocket Man_ from the _Honky Chateau_ album. It’s a good tune, if you’ve been living under a rock forever. But it shares album space with _I Think I’m Going To Kill Myself_, a super-sarcastic ode to teenage angst, and the absolutely magnificent _Mona Lisas And Mad Hatters_. Seriously, I dare you to try and turn off the car if this song comes on the radio. You could be late for a job interview, and there you’d be, sitting in the parking lot, in full view of the secretary, singing along with the engine running until the last notes fade. But then… the very next year… _Goodbye Yellow Brick Road_. Most double-albums are pretentious filler collections, but this one is a stunning example of what the format can achieve. Complex, varied, touching, weird, epic in scope, and somewhat disturbing. Ranging from the pseudo-country of _Roy Rogers_ (one of my favorite all-time songs) through the ripsnortin’ _Saturday Night’s Alright (For Fighting)_, it’s a tour de force for two musical geniuses hitting their stride. Immortal. Still don’t buy it? Give me one last shot. Buy a copy of _Tumbleweed Connection_, from way back in 1970, and put it on. Work through the puzzlement of hearing Elton doing very country-influenced rock, and then marvel at the beautiful idylls created by _Come Down In Time_ and _Love Song_. Get knocked back by the raw honest passion of _Amoreena_. And by the time the massive _Burn Down The Mission_ comes around, stretching the limits of what you thought a piano could do, check the volume knob on your sound system. You just cranked up an Elton John tune. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/64 "2004-01-14T22:38:49Z")
Well, damn. I typed in a long post and my PC crash. _grumble, grumble_ Well - here is the short version: Carpenters - trying to find an argument against, but really can’t. She had one of the best voices in pop music. Iron Maiden - can’t really say - listened to a lot of metal, but not a lot of Maiden… ELO - only the earlier stuff - Livin’ Thing, Medieval Woman, Don’t Break Me Down - all dreck… Spin Doctors - Really? Elton John - oh yeah - his early stuff up to about Blue Moves is really good, with some notable exceptions (Your Song is McCartney level pop drivel, IMHO, up there with Michelle). I am reading a collection of Lester Bangs’ rock critiques (hey, its a music snob thread, right?) and he slams Taupin’s lyrics as some of the all-time worst, but Bangs can’t be right all the time… Okay - how about Tom Petty’s first four albums - TP & the Heartbreakers, You’re Gonna Get it, Damn the Torpedoes and Hard Promises. Not groundbreaking, but surprisingly well-written, durable strummy pop tunes that cemented his rep, even withstanding his later mediocre stuff… ---
**Author:** ![Grelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a5b964/32.png) [@Grelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grelby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/65 "2004-01-14T23:20:25Z")
I’m going to throw in another vote for Fleetwood Mac. Their later incarnation put out some of the best popular music ever, in my opinion - _Go Your Own Way_ is the best kiss-off song ever, _Golddust Woman_ has become a Stevie Nicks/Mac classic and pretty much all of the other songs off of the album are fantastic (I don’t like McVie’s _Daddy_ very much, though). I think **Ass with a Hat** is totally off-base with “Fleetwood Mac just sucks. It’s safe, bland music for people who now listen to Dave Matthews in their mini-vans.” Uh-uh, dude. Listen to Rumours for some really amazingly well-crafted pop music. Lindsey Buckingham had an amazing talent for understated but catchy and memorable tunes and guitar work. Listen to Tusk for some truly edgy, even disturbing music with arrangements that are somewhat weird and definitely NOT “safe” for pop music - but Fleetwood Mac pulls it off. Good stuff. And that brings me to Dave Matthews, since he also mentioned them. Now, for some reason, Dave Matthews Band (henceforth, DMB) is a favorite target of music snobs. I’d kind of like to know why that is. Oh, sure, they’re wildly popular with the college-ditzy-girl types, but why is that a reason to dismiss them? Dave Matthews, first of all, has a very real lyrical talent. Whenever I listen to his music I am always impressed by the way the words come together, and almost always sounding natural and not hackneyed or overdone. It’s pretty fresh stuff. His new solo album isn’t of quite the same level of his work with and as DMB (including especially Under the Table and Dreaming and Crash) but it’s still suitably impressive DMB is also impressive on a musical level. They sound like the same band, but managed to work in a nice variety of sounds. In particular the texture and quality level of their arrangements is very impressive, and makes for some very full-sounding tracks. While I am also a fan of more sparse arrangements, this is something that DMB does very well. There is also a nice jazzy tinge to a lot of their music (I’m particularly thinking of _Crush_, here) that adds a nice level of depth. They also manage to do something different with most every song. Yes, Dave Matthews seemingly relentlessly dirty mind finds it’s way into a lot his music, but it’s almost always fun to listen to, so it doesn’t matter. Songs like _Marching Ants_ or _Crash into Me_ or _I Did It_ are just plain well written, interesting pop songs. Stir in some epic tours de force like the epic (and excellent) _Bartender_ and you’ve got a great pop band. Um, is there something wrong with that? Also, I’ve written enough, but I’ll throw in a work for Duran Duran as well. Love 'em. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/66 "2004-01-15T03:57:34Z")
Oh yeah, Baby: **Air Supply**. Two guys–old buddies from some Australian production of _Godspell_–some harmonies, a few number one hits, the mega-hit song, _Making Love Out of Nothing At All_, produced by Jim Steinman (who wrote nearly all of Meatloaf’s songs, and Bonnie Tyler’s _Total Eclipse of the Heart_, and _Read 'Em and Weep_ for Barry Manilow, and _It’s All Coming Back to Me Now_ for that Canadian French chick, Celine), and the reason that so many high school guys got laid back in the late '70s, early '80s. Magic. Pure magic. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/67 "2004-01-15T14:56:40Z")
Semisonic was Trip Shakespere? Hmm. Learn somethin every day. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/68 "2004-01-15T16:13:39Z")
**mouthbreather** - Air Supply!??!?! Air Supply? If you want to claim them as a Guilty Pleasure - you are welcome to do so (I would recommend keeping their CDs in a plain brown wrapper), but, IMHO, they will _never_ enter the ranks of Music Snobbishness! (yeah, like I am the arbiter of all that is Music Snobby - but whatever…). Take Journey’s Open Arms and then _make it even harder to take_ and you have Air Supply. Oy. As for Fleetwood Mac - no argument; I really think Rumours is timeless and great. As for Dave Matthews Band, I can’t explain why I find their music unpalatable, but I really do. They are all brilliant musicians, and I am glad they give so many people joy, but they don’t do it for me… ---
**Author:** ![glas\_onion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9dc877/32.png) [@glas\_onion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glas_onion)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/69 "2004-01-15T16:24:51Z")
**Ocean Colour Scene** (OCS) I love this band. And it is definitely not a _Guilty_ Pleasure at all. Their lyrics make me cry, laugh and sing out loud. When they rock they rock big time(_The Riverboat Song_ ), and when they sing slow ballads I don’t know any band who does it better(_Get Blown Away_ ). I saw them three times in 2003. Once was an acoustic gig, and they were brilliant. The other two times were back to back nights, once I was standing, and the second night I was sitting. I own practically every album they’ve made, apart from their first Self-Titled one, but they got much better after that, with _Mosely Shaols_ and _Marchin’ Already_. These albums, in my mind, are timeless classics. I do like the next two, but their latest _North Atlantic Drift_ sees a return to the halcyon days of the albums 2 and 3. Simon Fowlers’ voice is next to none, and Steve Craddocks’ guitar playing is simply brilliant. I never knew what The Beatles meant when they said “…while my guitar gently weeps…” but listening to Steve, now I know. Damon Minchella on bass guitar lives for live gigs, and bursts to life on stage. I think Oscar Harrisson on drums is the best drummer around today…bar none. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/70 "2004-01-15T17:22:01Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **mouthbreather** - Air Supply!??!?! Air Supply? > > If you want to claim them as a Guilty Pleasure - you are welcome to do so (I would recommend keeping their CDs in a plain brown wrapper), but, IMHO, they will _never_ enter the ranks of Music Snobbishness! (yeah, like I am the arbiter of all that is Music Snobby - but whatever…). Take Journey’s Open Arms and then _make it even harder to take_ and you have Air Supply. Hey, don’t blame poor **mouthbreather** ; Air Supply was alllllllll mine. 😉 And I stand by every single lil’ syllabub. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/71 "2004-01-15T17:47:52Z")
oooops - sorry about that **mouthbreather** :smack: And **SkipMagic** - hey, we all have our weaknesses. Sounds like you acknowledge yours with pride!! (just no Starland Vocal Band, okay?) ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/72 "2004-01-15T17:53:53Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > Oh yeah, Baby: **Air Supply** [http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/airsupply.html](http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/airsupply.html) You gotta admit, this could’ve only made them more brilliant. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/73 "2004-01-15T20:10:26Z")
> [@Moody Bastard](#): > > [http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/airsupply.html](http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/airsupply.html) > > You gotta admit, this could’ve only made them more brilliant. 😉 > [@](#): > > Making Partially Hydrogenated Corn Syrup Out of Nothing at All I wooed my wife to that song… Don’t worry, though: I talked her out of giving me the ring back. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/74 "2004-01-16T04:18:51Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > oooops - sorry about that **mouthbreather** :smack: Some transgressions are fine and can be forgiven. However, accusing one of liking Air Supply does not fall under this heading. I don’t think we’re cool anymore. 😉 ::walks away, quietly singing “I’m All Out of Love” :: ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/75 "2004-01-16T15:03:54Z")
…I understand your concern **mouthbreather** - I pretty much accused you of living on the Dark Side. Of being a face-painter at sports events. Of loving bad reality TV, like that new show about the obnoxious fiance. Of thinking that the only food that matters is deep-fried and tastes better with ketchup. Of thinking Tonya Harding was robbed of her chance at ice-skating greatness. How can I ever redeem myself in your eyes? I could get you a copy of the Little River Band’s Greatest Hits - would that do it? (“We’ll go walking through the park, dancing in the dark and reminiscing.”) Hopefully, WordMan ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/76 "2004-01-16T21:38:37Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I could get you a copy of the Little River Band’s Greatest Hits - would that do it? Nope. But if you added a copy of Klymaxx - Greatest Hits to the deal, me and you would once again be homies. ::swaying slowly to the seductive beat of “I Miss You” that’s playing in my head:: ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/77 "2004-01-17T00:14:58Z")
Nope. Sorry. Not gonna happen. Klymaxx actually had their moments. I can, however, in the spirit of redemption, get you a mix CD with the Hughes Corporations’ “Rock the Boat”, the Chi-Lites’ “It’s too late to turn back now”, whoever sang "I Believe in Miracles (where you from, you sexy thang), that instrumental track Popcorn. Oh, and Gloria by Laura Brannigan. Homies for life? ---
**Author:** ![Quack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e99b99/32.png) [@Quack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quack)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/78 "2004-01-17T03:31:33Z")
**Moody Bastard,** great analysis of the Spin Doctors. These guys seem to be on a lot of “worst bands in the history of bands” lists, but I think their music shows extreme instrumental skill and lyrical wit. I loved “Pocket Full of Kryptonite”, it’s one of my favorite records. Oh, and **Jurph** , spot on with the Green Day thoughts, especially “She”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/79 "2004-01-17T03:40:00Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Nope. Sorry. Not gonna happen. Klymaxx actually had their moments. I can, however, in the spirit of redemption, get you a mix CD with the Hughes Corporations’ “Rock the Boat”, the Chi-Lites’ “It’s too late to turn back now”, whoever sang "I Believe in Miracles (where you from, you sexy thang), that instrumental track Popcorn. > > Oh, and Gloria by Laura Brannigan. > > Homies for life? “You Sexy Thing” was by Hot Chocolate. Tom Tom Club did an interesting version of that song. “Too Late To Turn Back” was by Cornelius Brothers and Sister Rose. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732/80 "2004-01-17T06:14:54Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Homies for life? You drive a hard bargain. To seal the deal, I’ll need a drunken Karoke duet by both of us, doing great injustice to “Convoy” by CW McCall. EVERYONE NOW: "‘Cause we got a great big convoy Rockin’ through the night. " 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-declared-music-snobs-a-challenge/223732.md?page=5)