Self defense for the unathletic

Factual Questions
21

I don’t think your scenario is all that realistic. Someone takes your wallet, and then tries to KILL you because you’ve seen his face? With his bare hands? Killing ANYONE besides small children and the elderly with one’s bare hands isn’t easy, clean, or quiet no matter how out of shape or overweight the victim is. In a life to death adreanline pumping kind of encounter, you are just as likely to kick him in the nuts and disable him as he is you, the ability to run triathalons probably isn’t going to help either of you, and even if he does win, chances are you would have dealt him a few grevious injuries before going down, which won’t help his chances of escaping the authorities later.

Assuming your assailant isn’t particularly bright or well prepared, it’s a crapshoot really. Match the other guy in agression, fight dirty but remeber he will be doing the same, scream like a banshee, which will boost your confidence, alert passerbys, and unerve your opponent. SInce you seem to have a much greater stake in this than he does (life vs the $10 in your wallet) chances are he will give up and run for it before you.

22

[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast]
I don’t think your scenario is all that realistic.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I don’t actually know, but the scenario is not particularly unlikely if Belrix is a girl.

Granted, if Belrix is a boy it becomes more unlikely, but not really impossible.

23

[QUOTE=Dorjän]
You’ve never taken a shot to the balls, have you.

It’s best to have some training, plenty of practice, and the willingness to use it. Of course, most of us lack at least one of those three.

When all else fails, fight dirty and fight crazy.
[/QUOTE]

The point isn’t whether or not a balls-shot is debilitating, we all agree that it is.

The issue is whether it is an effective self-defense technique. A previous poster is correct about the difficulty, it is ridiculously easy to defend against, and is a generally awkward area to get a good strike into. People instinctively flinch-defend this area very well. I would preferentially go for bladder, plexus, throat, or eyes/nose all before trying a groin strike.

Teaching a groin strike as a “magic button” self-defense technique to depend on is very irresponsible. You have to hit it hard, and hit it the first time, or the surprise factor is over. If you miss, you are only going to make your assailant angry.

IMO, there is no effective short-term self-defense technique training. If you don’t have the time commitment to spend at least 6 months, then you are much better off with “psychological” self-defense (i.e. screaming, flailing, walking with confidence, situational awareness, etc).

I’ve seen far too many women come out of two-week defense classes overconfidently thinking they have learned the magic “knee break” and “groin kick” will protect them.

24

I’ve been told that instead of trying to hit the groin that I should stomp the shit out of an assailant’s foot, as a downward stomp is probably my unathletic most powerful shot. Is this actually usefull advice, or is it crap? (I know if somebody broke my foot I wouldn’t be following them, but then again I don’t wear steel toed boots and plenty of people do.)

25

[QUOTE=GargoyleWB]
The point isn’t whether or not a balls-shot is debilitating, we all agree that it is.

The issue is whether it is an effective self-defense technique. A previous poster is correct about the difficulty, it is ridiculously easy to defend against, and is a generally awkward area to get a good strike into. People instinctively flinch-defend this area very well. I would preferentially go for bladder, plexus, throat, or eyes/nose all before trying a groin strike.
[/quote]
We don’t all agree: the poster Dorjan was responding to held the view that a groin shot can’t put someone down, which is contrary to my experience with kicking and being kicked in the groin. I’ll concede that whether or not it should be considered a primary target is a subject that reasonable minds can disagree on, but there are a fair number of self defense systems that consider the eyes and groin (and occassionally throat) primary targets, because they have do they ability to incapacitate effectively.

True, but the OP was asking what to do against an assailant who was trying to kill him. In a life-threatening situation, a groin strike or four is appropriate. My fiancee reminded me of another example over lunch: before we were dating, a casual acquaintance attempted to rape her. She had no self-defnse training at all at the time, but she fought him off by kicking him in the groin repeatedly (“more times than I could count,” was her response when I asked her how many times she kicked him). Anecdotes aren’t evidence, of course, but it sure worked in that instance.

I’m not disagreeing with you, by the way – I fully agree that the best course of action is situational awareness and in-depth self-defense training, but if the cocktail party question is “what do I do if someone tries to kill me on the way home tonight?”, then my response will be something along the lines of “fight and scream like hell, gouge his eyes out, kick him repeatedly in the groin, and run first chance you get.”

26

[QUOTE=Carnac the Magnificent!]
I hear this is Hillary’s campaign strategy. :wink:
[/QUOTE]
Are political statements like this considered appropriate for GQ?

Even statements as obviously false as this one?

27

[QUOTE=alice_in_wonderland]
Well, I don’t actually know, but the scenario is not particularly unlikely if Belrix is a girl.

Granted, if Belrix is a boy it becomes more unlikely, but not really impossible.
[/QUOTE]

A lot of my friends, male and female, have been mugged at some point. Usually the muggers will attack violently to begin with and then take their stuff. They won’t try to kill you, but they will stab you, break bones, shatter jaws, etc.

28

[QUOTE=Dorjän]
You’ve never taken a shot to the balls, have you.

It’s best to have some training, plenty of practice, and the willingness to use it. Of course, most of us lack at least one of those three.

When all else fails, fight dirty and fight crazy.
[/QUOTE]

Once I took a heavy one in the balls during a street fight. It didn’t make me go down.
Once I gave a good one during a stunt fight (by mistake, of course), it didn’t make him go down.
If you have some adrenaline going, it just don’t work that way.

I’ve been practicing martial arts for years, it’s very easy to avoid getting one in the balls.

If it was easy to hit one in the balls, why don’t people aim for it all the time?
If it made people go down like being shot, why don’t people aim for each others balls all the time?

If you’re the weaker part, and you’re being attacked, don’t try to kick the assailant in the balls, because 1) you’ll probably hit the thigh, 2) most likely, not much will happen even if you get a decent hit.

Scream, fight, run. – Don’t try to do like they do on TV, 'couse most likely it won’t work.

29

[QUOTE=Kinthalis]

The first and best self-defense advice is: Be aware of your sorroundings. Don’t wlak into dark alleys, take stock of anything suspicious or out of place, be sure to have your keys ready, walk with groups of friends, etc, etc. This is your first and best line of defense. It’s what has the best chance of saving your life.

[/quote]

Absolutely.

I’ve had that single instruction literally beaten into me throughout my training in Jodokkdo/Jodokkali/Jodokkjitsu. Know the dimensions of the area you are entering. Know as much about the inhabitants as you possibly can. Always know your way out of an area before going into it. Always be looking for something that you can arm yourself with in the unlikely event that you find yourself in an altercation moments later. And commit completely when you know that you have no other option; when it’s on, it’s on!

As far as any single thing that can turn the tide in your favor rapidly, I disagree with the testicles only in as much as it isn’t a given that you will accurately hit your mark, or that the target isn’t enraged enough that he is able to shut out the pain(I’ve seen this a few times).

My personal favorite is a reverse chop to the throat right above the laryngeal prominence or more commonly known as the Adam’s apple where there is no protection of the wind pipe. The actual mark you are aiming for is the hyothyreoid membrane. Do not hit that Adam’s Apple itself, but right above it where the throat line profile begins to recede.

The result is an unavoidable stun to the assailant followed by the anxiety associated with the inability to breathe, buying significant time for an escape, or a follow up if you are so inclined. I have witnessed on more than one occasion the affected blacking out before being able to “remember how to breathe again”. It’s like having the wind knocked out of you, yet there is an added confusion of wondering if something has been broken and if this is going to be the end of you as a result. You take all of the fight out of them.

A fairly accurate representation of this in film is a scene in Ransom, where Gary Sinise’s character reverse-chops one of his own cohorts in the throat in an attempt to get his attention regarding the killing of the hostage. The victim’s expression and reaction is a pretty accurate representation of what happens when you are hit there. It f*cking sucks.

30

You die or get horribly injured.
Hey…not every story has a happy ending.
Let me enter a dose of reality into the conversation here. Assuming you are a regular overweight out of shape guy who hasn’t been in a fight since the eighth grade, your best bet is to toss your wallet at his face and run in the opposite direction. Hopefully he will be more interested in your cash than you.

I mean seriously. You are not going to take out some punk who probably gets in a fight once a week and has enough balls to ROB you with a couple of Tiger Shulman roundhouse kicks to the groin. I mean if he’s smart he’ll ask you for your wallet AFTER he cracks you across the nose with his pistol.

31

I say fight to win. Grab your keys, pull his hair and jab him in the eye with them.

Like other people said, make a committment. It may be a short commitment, but it is still one nonetheless.

Commit yourself to jab as hard as you can.

32

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
the gun advice is very bad unless you train to use the gun and get a license to carry it.
[/QUOTE]
A gun is by far the best option. But I agree on the training… if you’re going to use a handgun for self defense, you need to train, train, train.

33

ultrafilter’s link is to a very good site run by a man that lives about 30 minutes south of you in Castle Rock. He teaches in the Castle Rock Rec Center a couple times a week and will even do private lessons for about half the cost of others I’ve spoken with. I’ve done a few email exchanges with the guy and he seems pretty straightforward. I hope to do a private lesson with him the next time I am in Colorado.

-Tcat

34

I saw keys mentioned once

  • they are good, aimed at the eyes

I favour a Swiss Army knife, used as a hammer - a sideways blow to the head.

Wearing heavy shoes is useful, people don’t tend to mix it with people who walk about with 1lb of high class leather on each of their feet.

If anything looking more evil than a potential assailant is the best protection, but if it comes down to it don’t use a fist, tuck in your fingers and slap your palm under their nose, it will, with luck push their septum into their cerebellum.

When I was a kid, a remnant from WWII took pity on me and taught me a few tricks.
He used to work behind lines, and he was no linguist. Rank: Squadron Leader.

The filthiest is to play wimp, let them get on top of you and then fight back.
The theory is they will try to strangle you

  • at which point you put your thumbs in their mouth and rip their face apart
35

[QUOTE=FRDE]

The filthiest is to play wimp, let them get on top of you and then fight back.
The theory is they will try to strangle you

  • at which point you put your thumbs in their mouth and rip their face apart
    [/QUOTE]

My police officer friend was just talking about that last night. You pull their lips apart into a smile and keep pulling, HARD. She said that they all had to have it done to them to see what it felt like. She said the face starts burning like someone doused it in gasoline and lit a match. My tough ex-marine, police officer friend said she cried.

Also, if you’re going to go for the hair, don’t just pull, twist. It’s much more painful and you may get lucky and tear off some of their scalp.

36

[QUOTE=FRDE]
The filthiest is to play wimp, let them get on top of you and then fight back.
The theory is they will try to strangle you

  • at which point you put your thumbs in their mouth and rip their face apart
    [/QUOTE]

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but doesn’t willingly getting pinned by an assailant in the hopes that they’ll attack you in some particular way seem like just about the stupidest thing you can do? If you can’t pull off the thumbs in the mouth maneuver cause the guy’s punching you in the face and keeping his distance, you’re fucked. You no longer have the option to run, and if there are no makeshift weapons within arm’s reach, there might as well not be any in the world.

37

Ok, this is really getting ridiculous. You are asking how to win a physical confrontation with a guy who is physically superior to you. It’s like asking “give me some tricks to win a one vs one basketball game against Michael Jordan”. There ARE NO TRICKS because he will simply dominate you. Any punch you can throw, any block you make and any cheap move you pull, he can do too. Except he can do it faster and more powerfully than you.

It’s like my girlfriend play-wrestling with me. She thinks she can win because I have to be careful not to hurt her and her little punches tickle a bit. But anytime I want to end it all I have to do is either get up carry her along with me or just pin her under my immovable 200 lbs of mass (well, weight technically but whatever) until she gets mad.

So the obvious answer is to the OP is if you are trapped by a guy who is far supperior to you physically and is intent on putting you in a hurt locker, I don’t think there is much you can do that will change the eventual outcome.

38

Pop-quiz for those of you advocating a gun as a self-defense method:

You’re alone in a dark alley, and a guy is coming at you with clear intent to do you harm. You pull out your gun, take aim at his heart and order him to go away. He charges you instead, and you shoot him. The cops show up, see a guy with a smoking gun standing over another guy with a bullet in him, and arrest you. How do you convince the judge and jury that it was an act of self-defense and not a drug deal gone bad? What if your attacker survives and testifies that it was a drug deal gone bad?

39

[QUOTE=FRDE]
If anything looking more evil than a potential assailant is the best protection, but if it comes down to it don’t use a fist, tuck in your fingers and slap your palm under their nose, it will, with luck push their septum into their cerebellum.
[/QUOTE]

The nasal bones are very thin and short, while the base of the skull is thick. Even considering that you might be trying to go through the frontal sinuses, I can’t think that this would do anything other than break the assailant’s nose.

40

[QUOTE=ultrafilter]
Pop-quiz for those of you advocating a gun as a self-defense method:

You’re alone in a dark alley, and a guy is coming at you with clear intent to do you harm. You pull out your gun, take aim at his heart and order him to go away. He charges you instead, and you shoot him. The cops show up, see a guy with a smoking gun standing over another guy with a bullet in him, and arrest you. How do you convince the judge and jury that it was an act of self-defense and not a drug deal gone bad? What if your attacker survives and testifies that it was a drug deal gone bad?
[/QUOTE]

What if exactly the same thing happens except, instead of a gun, it was yer mad martial arts skillz?