# Self-Defense Laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985 "2007-07-16T15:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Originals](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@Psycho\_Originals](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Originals)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/1 "2007-07-16T15:42:03Z")
Are there limits to what force can be used in a certain situation? Obviously if a person is threatening to kill you and has you at gunpoint, and you pull an old Chuck Norris on him it would be perfectly legal. But what if a person broke in, no weapon, and all they wanted was your big screen TV? Would they be eligible for a serious ass whooping? What amount of force could you legally use on the TV knapper? How do they determine in court that an act was self-defense? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/2 "2007-07-16T15:49:11Z")
It depends on the state. In Louisiana, you can use force to protect property and deadly force if the person enters your house regardless of any weapons or immediate physical threat. In the latter scenario, you wouldn’t have too many legal problems and people in the state excercise that right when the sitaution warrants it. If the person isn’t in your house, the situation is a little grey but people have used deadly force then too and not gotten charged with anything. Carjacking also gives someone the automatic right of deadly force. Other states are all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/3 "2007-07-16T15:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] It depends on the state. [/QUOTE] This is key. Every state has different laws on this subject. In many states one cannot use force to protect property. We just had a case here where a guy shot someone trying to steal his car. Car owner just got sentenced to prison for that. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/4 "2007-07-16T16:51:21Z")
In many states, someone who has broken into your residence is presumed to be a threat, even if all they are interested in is stealing your TV. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/5 "2007-07-16T17:09:26Z")
Ironnicly, even though California has some of the strictest gun laws we have some of the most open minded self defense laws epsically when it comes to home invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/6 "2007-07-16T18:22:03Z")
Frequently (some states) allow for self defense only to the extent that you are no longer in danger. Ex. Random bad guy hits you in mouth. You hit random bad guy in nuts, he goes down and starts screaming. The 2nd thru n kicks are assault. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/7 "2007-07-16T21:48:49Z")
[QUOTE=Lanzy] Frequently (some states) allow for self defense only to the extent that you are no longer in danger. Ex. Random bad guy hits you in mouth. You hit random bad guy in nuts, he goes down and starts screaming. The 2nd thru n kicks are assault. [/QUOTE] Who is the judge of whether someone is a danger to you? If I kick a guy in the nuts, and he goes down, I can guarantee he is not getting up again until the paramedics pick him up. Standing there waiting to see if the one kick was enough is a good way to re-establish your status as a crime victim. ---
**Author:** ![Yag\_Rannavach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/858c86/32.png) [@Yag\_Rannavach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yag_Rannavach)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/8 "2007-07-16T22:06:27Z")
[QUOTE=Bill Door] Who is the judge of whether someone is a danger to you? If I kick a guy in the nuts, and he goes down, I can guarantee he is not getting up again until the paramedics pick him up. Standing there waiting to see if the one kick was enough is a good way to re-establish your status as a crime victim. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately for you, that could be assault. Though it would ultimately be up to the courts to decide, this is one example of the reasoning that gets used (note number 2): > [@](#): > > Here are a few very basic guidelines to tell when it crosses the line from self-defense into something illegal. You or your student become the aggressor if 1) you were an active participant in the creation and escalation of the conflict, (e.g. you were in an argument that turned into an extended punch out). 2) you did not stop attacking after the immediate threat had passed (e.g. he was trying to disengage or had fallen and you kept on attacking) or 3) your response was excessive beyond the threat offered to you (e.g. you knife someone who just punched you). These three standards are far more a reality than what you will hear discussed in martial arts circles about what works in a “real fight.” Once these lines are crossed, it’s not self-defense anymore – even if it started out as such From [here](http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/legal.html#useofforce) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/9 "2007-07-16T22:40:26Z")
[QUOTE=mks57] In many states, someone who has broken into your residence is presumed to be a threat, even if all they are interested in is stealing your TV. [/QUOTE] And many don’t. The burden of proof falls upon the one using force that the actions of another were such that it was reasonable to use force. Unfortunately many areas don’t consider a break in enough, in and of itself, to justify force, especially lethal force, against a burglar. ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/10 "2007-07-16T22:45:38Z")
You can look up the phrase “Castle Doctrine” to find the states that allow lethal force against an intruder in your home. It sure beats having to ask “Pardon me, but are you here to rape and kill my family, or did you just want the DVD?” Gun control is the odd idea that a woman dead and raped in an alley is somehow morally superior to one explaining to a police officer how her attacker got those gunshot wounds. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/11 "2007-07-16T23:01:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bill Door] Who is the judge of whether someone is a danger to you? If I kick a guy in the nuts, and he goes down, I can guarantee he is not getting up again until the paramedics pick him up. Standing there waiting to see if the one kick was enough is a good way to re-establish your status as a crime victim. [/QUOTE] Yes, it is. That’s why you’re expected to run away. Unless you’re in your house or car (in some states), the amount of force you’re allowed to use in self-defense is the amount that’s reasonably sufficient to let you flee. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/12 "2007-07-16T23:55:47Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] Gun control is the odd idea that a woman dead and raped in an alley is somehow morally superior to one explaining to a police officer how her attacker got those gunshot wounds. [/QUOTE] [:rolleyes:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176699) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/13 "2007-07-16T23:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] You can look up the phrase “Castle Doctrine” to find the states that allow lethal force against an intruder in your home. [/QUOTE] You’re better off reading up on your state’s penal code regarding the application of force in defense of self, others, and property. Information online regarding the topic–here and elsewhere, and particularly in regard to people who bandy around terms like “Castle Doctrine” and “Stand Your Ground Law”–is notoriously inaccurate. No prosecutor or judge is going to offer leniency because you got bad advice on a message board. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/14 "2007-07-17T00:04:09Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] No prosecutor or judge is going to offer leniency because you got bad advice on a message board. Stranger [/QUOTE] There is a book called “How to Own a Gun and Stay out of Jail”, they do a version for each state updated every year or so IIRC. It covers just about all of the use of lethal force doctrines for the state in question. Example > **[How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail: What You Need to Know About the Law If You...](https://www.amazon.com/How-Own-Gun-Stay-Jail/dp/0964286432)** > > How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail: What You Need to Know About the Law If You Own a Gun or Are Thinking of Buying One : California Edition 2006 \[Machtinger, John F.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. How to Own a Gun & Stay Out... On further checking there may only be a CA version… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/15 "2007-07-17T00:16:08Z")
After using deadly force in Ohio, you will have to convince a jury that all of the following are true: 1. You believed your life (or someone else’s life) was in immanent danger. 2. You did not instigate the situation. 3. You did not escalate the situation. 4. You could not retreat from the threat. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-laws/411985/16 "2007-07-17T00:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=Crafter\_Man] After using deadly force in Ohio, you will have to convince a jury that all of the following are true: 1. You believed your life (or someone else’s life) was in immanent danger. 2. You did not instigate the situation. 3. You did not escalate the situation. 4. You could not retreat from the threat. [/QUOTE] #4 is why “Castle Doctrine” and “Stand Your Ground Laws” are vital. It places a burden on someone who acted in self defense. If I’m in a situation where numbers 1-3 are true I’m not going to waste time looking for a back door to run out of. I’m going to end the threat.