# Self defense rights question. Video included. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521 "2012-10-12T15:21:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/21 "2012-10-12T16:59:37Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > From what’s on the video, I do not see where she physically assaults him; she appears to put her hands on him as the guy in the reflector vest is sitting down next to the cameraman, but it’s definitely not a punch. I have watched it several times over, you can’t see what she does, but there is a definite reaction from the bystanders when she leans over behind the guy in the vest. I’m sure what that was will come out eventually, but I’m pretty sure that from the reaction of the crowd, she didn’t give him a kiss on the cheek. Having worked with a variety of “customer service challenges” like that in my amusement park days, ALOT of women think they can hit a man without fear because “I’m a girl and you don’t hit girls”. As a general rule…no you don’t, but if a woman initiates, prepare to reap the whirlwind. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/22 "2012-10-12T17:00:52Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Could the driver have a case for the “fighting words” defense? There is no such thing as a “fighting words” defense. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/23 "2012-10-12T17:01:15Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > When the video starts, the bus is clearly moving. It looks like he has to stop before getting up to deck her. So she was interfering with the operation of the bus while it was moving and endangering the other riders. The only thing the law says is whether he can be prosecuted or sued. When it comes to trial, its the lawyer’s job to argue whether the danger she posed was so great that it required him to strike her. If the jury buys it, they can choose not to convict. But that’s up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/24 "2012-10-12T17:02:01Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Yeah. I laughed at the video. Scared to admit it, but I did. I really wanted to hear that the dude somehow got away with it. Dorjan, did he get charged with anything? At the moment, it’s just “under investigation”. The fight also seems to have happened Sept. 18th, so a bit of time has passed. Note this also implies ole girl took her licking (like an uh, man?) and kept it moving. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/25 "2012-10-12T17:03:42Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > I have watched it several times over, you can’t see what she does, but there is a definite reaction from the bystanders when she leans over behind the guy in the vest. I’m sure what that was will come out eventually, but I’m pretty sure that from the reaction of the crowd, she didn’t give him a kiss on the cheek. > > Having worked with a variety of “customer service challenges” like that in my amusement park days, ALOT of women think they can hit a man without fear because “I’m a girl and you don’t hit girls”. As a general rule…no you don’t, but if a woman initiates, prepare to reap the whirlwind. According to witnesses, she spit on him. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/26 "2012-10-12T17:11:12Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > According to witnesses, she spit on him. Whoa. In that case, I’m fine if she spit a few incisors afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/27 "2012-10-12T17:12:50Z")
The law is not fine with that, though. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/28 "2012-10-12T17:15:33Z")
> [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > The law is not fine with that, though. Well plenty of your laws aren’t followed to the letter either 😃 Gonna have a hard time convincing a jury to throw the book at him though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/29 "2012-10-12T17:17:02Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Could the driver have a case for the “fighting words” defense? > [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > There is no such thing as a “fighting words” defense. To expand on this, “fighting words” do not mean “words which induce people to fight”. They are words which are so offensive that [the government may permissibly regulate their use](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplinsky_v._New_Hampshire). Mere words, no matter how offensive, are never a legal justification for battery (other than threats, in limited circumstances). ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/30 "2012-10-12T17:19:39Z")
Man, the coolest thing that ever happened when I was on public transportation was the time some kids kicked a window out of an El train. I don’t really have any info to share on the whole self-defense thing, but I too laughed at the video. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/31 "2012-10-12T17:19:54Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Whoa. In that case, I’m fine if she spit a few incisors afterwards. +1 Spitting on someone isn’t just a form of assault, its intended to be demeaning and dominant…you are beneath my contempt kind of thing to do. Spitting on someone is pretty much daring them to do something about it. That is asking for a fight…she got one. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/32 "2012-10-12T17:43:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Mere words, no matter how offensive, are never a legal justification for battery (other than threats, in limited circumstances). Howzabout spitting? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/33 "2012-10-12T17:45:46Z")
Spitting, yes. It’s a battery in itself in many jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/34 "2012-10-12T17:46:10Z")
Spitting on someone is not a legal justification for assaulting and battering them. I have to admit, I’m kind of disturbed by the number of people who seem to be taking pleasure in watching a man brutalize a teenage girl. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/35 "2012-10-12T18:03:13Z")
> [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > Spitting on someone is not a legal justification for assaulting and battering them. Spitting on someone _is_ a battery. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/36 "2012-10-12T18:06:31Z")
> [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > I have to admit, I’m kind of disturbed by the number of people who seem to be taking pleasure in watching a man brutalize a teenage girl. What video did you watch? I did not see him brutalizing anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/37 "2012-10-12T18:16:53Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > If a grown man gets hit by a 17 year old girl, can he hit her back? Not unless the assault is ongoing, and his actions are necessary to get her to terminate her assault. > [@](#): > > What if it takes him a several seconds to get up out of his chair to hit her? Given the she had already stopped assaulting him several seconds prior, there no longer appeared to be a clear and present danger; he was not defending himself, he was retaliating, which is assault on his part. > [@](#): > > What are the chances he will go to jail? Slim to none. He assaulted her, but she assaulted him first with that spitting stunt. If she dares to press charges against him, he’ll press charges against her; it’s a Mexican standoff in the courtroom, and the only win-win outcome is if they both refuse to press charges. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/38 "2012-10-12T18:17:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Spitting on someone _is_ a battery. Well, then he clearly should have stabbed or shot her. > [@Jesus of Nazareth](#): > > House? I have no house. Foxes have holes, and the birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head. You’re my new hero. Do you have any literature about your ways which you could leave in my mailbox? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/39 "2012-10-12T18:21:56Z")
Not much of an uppercut - she got back up and kept running her mouth. Bus driver’s gonna get fired and wind up in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521/40 "2012-10-12T18:24:27Z")
It was a criminal assault and battery on a minor. There is no available defense here that I can see. He was not defending himself. The fact that she spit on him is not sufficient to support to support a claim of self defense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-rights-question-video-included/637521.md?page=3)