# Self-defense shooting based off of what \*might\* happen to you **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2020, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181 "2020-07-13T06:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/42 "2020-07-14T19:35:42Z")
Again- **why** was he driving thru them? Did he have no other choice? Or was he being a asshole? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/43 "2020-07-14T19:39:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I was simply making a point about blaming the victim. Of course women have a right to wear whatever they want, but that didn’t stop a lot of assholes in the past from saying things lkke, “Well, of course rape is wrong, but why did she have to wear a miniskirt? That’s just inviting teouble!” > > That kind of attitude is not far from, “Ok, I can see the mob damaging his car and threatening him, but what did he do to encourage that? Maybe he threatened them or was a jerk before the camera footage starts.” Yeah, it’s pretty far from that. If you threaten someone with a deadly weapon (e.g., a car), it is generally acceptable to stop the threat. A miniskirt is not a threat. No analogy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/44 "2020-07-14T19:45:59Z")
A stopped car is not a threat. A moving car is only a threat if you are blocking the road. The first duty in any potentially threatening situation is to take steps to remove youreelf from the threat. In this case, it was trivially easy for that crowd to avoid any ‘threat’ from the car. They just had to walk away from it. Instead, they escalated by chasing the guy, then surrounding the car so it couldn’t move without hurting someone, then proceeded to damage the car and physically assault the driver. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/45 "2020-07-14T20:21:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A stopped car is not a threat. A stopped car with the engine off and keys out of the ignition is not a threat. A stopped car with the engine running can become a threat in an instant. What it looked like to me was the guy was reaching in to grab the keys from the ignition, in order to stop it from being a threat, and protect those around. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They just had to walk away from it. Instead, they escalated by chasing the guy, then surrounding the car so it couldn’t move without hurting someone, then proceeded to damage the car and physically assault the driver. There was a large crowd of people that were in the direction of potential travel. An individual could avoid the threat by moving away, but the group was at the driver’s mercy. It’s almost like you don’t think that being hit by a car can cause injury. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/46 "2020-07-14T20:36:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I was simply making a point about blaming the victim. Of course women have a right to wear whatever they want Whereas assholes do not have the right to drive through any crowd they want. Comparison remains odious. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/47 "2020-07-14T20:37:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A stopped car is not a threat. Bullshit. Only a stopped car _without a driver in it_ is not a threat. Let me just ask one thing - to you, do multiple recent incidents of vehicles being used as purposeful deadly weapons on crowds not factor into your analysis at all? Like, even a _little_ bit? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/48 "2020-07-14T21:49:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In this case, it was trivially easy for that crowd to avoid any ‘threat’ from the car. They just had to walk away from it. That guy was deliberately driving through a group of pedestrians. It was also clear that this was not the normal flow of traffic, as he was the only car doing this. He did not slow to the pace of the pedestrians to cautiously avoid them. Just because they could avoid a threat does not mean it was not a threat. Fortunately, he did not hit anybody. Unlike this: [https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/us/charlottesville-car-attacker-sentencing/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/28/us/charlottesville-car-attacker-sentencing/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/49 "2020-07-15T00:59:10Z")
A few years ago, a man was being chased by a group of men due to road rage. He ran into his house and locked the door. While calling the police, the men actually broke the door jam and the man shot his gun killing the man on the other side of the door. It took the jury less than a couple of hour to find him not guilty. The foreman admitted that they had voted unanimously not guilty in less than fifteen minutes but had been “advised” by the bailiff that doing so would piss off the judge and to go over the evidence once again, have lunch and then voted again! Most people would consider their car as sacrosanct as their home! ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/50 "2020-07-15T02:20:41Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Most people would consider their car as sacrosanct as their home! And yet, unless you live in the land of Oz where homes dropped from great heights can be murder weapons too, completely different when it comes to the threat they pose to others. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/51 "2020-07-16T11:23:01Z")
After reading through the thread, this is the reason we have courts and trials with evidence. The OP’s question is misleading, or at best incomplete. IANAL, but: Are you justified in shooting someone trying to violently drag you from your car? Absolutely. Are you justified in shooting someone trying to violently drag you from your car in order to stop you from intentionally driving through a crowd? Probably not. In fact, I think that would be considered something like “felony murder” since someone died while you were attempting to commit a major crime. Are you justified in shooting someone trying to violently drag you from your car in order to stop you from escaping a crazed mob? This is a bit of a gray area that needs lawyers to weigh in on the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/52 "2020-08-04T19:47:24Z")
In a way, you almost always shoot defensively based upon what _might_ happen to you, how could it be otherwise? You cant shoot when dead or when beaten to a pulp. Thank god I have never had to pull a trigger. Yes, the Ops sitrep is unusual, no doubt. Perhaps the guy caused his own problem, in that case a court would have to make a decision. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181/53 "2020-08-04T20:00:14Z")
In driver vs. protest altercations, I’m always very skeptical of team driver because they almost always could have backed up and left the way they came. There is nowhere that you need to be _that_ urgently that excuses killing someone. An attentive driver should see the stoppage in plenty of time to stop and choose a different route; a responsible driver would not get frustrated and play chicken with a bunch of soft breakable bodies. But in this case, if I were a juror, I’d vote to acquit. Dragging someone from their car is already assault and possibly abduction… it’s unreasonable to expect the driver to wait and see if it will turn into murder or not. Especially given that the driver is surrounded and has no way to escape without harming the crowd (though again I would fault the driver for engaging the crowd instead of backing up and leaving the way he came, or by an alternate route). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-defense-shooting-based-off-of-what-might-happen-to-you/915181.md?page=2)