# Self Delusions **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 30, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919 "2010-04-30T23:05:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/21 "2010-05-01T15:43:07Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Most Americans think they have a chance at eternal paradise through magic, and you think this girl is delusional because she overestimates her maturity? You miscalculate dosages this morning, or what? First off, let’s please keep religion out of this; it’s going to turn the whole thread into an argument about religion. And second, the potshot at the OP doesn’t belong in this forum. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/22 "2010-05-01T15:59:13Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Dude is totally married. Nope, most likely he’s just banging the gringa of (what is percieved as) low moral standards. It’s a fairly common occurance with young, female, American ex-pats. They think they’re in a relationship and the guy’s just using them for sex. One would never introduce her to one’s family. To male friends, yes, family, never. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/23 "2010-05-01T21:18:21Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I’m not familiar with cultural norms in Peru, but in certain countries, particularly in Latin America, it’s not weird to be 30 and living with your family… especially if you’re not married. And considering that he’s working as an engineer, the most likely scenario is that this guy is actually supporting his family rather than the other way around. I don’t think it’s fair to apply U.S. cultural standards to another country when assessing whether or not someone is mature. > > I do know that I was way more mature than the average kid in her early 20s, having supported myself financially since the age of 17 and having to overcome a shitload of obstacles in my early adulthood. But I’m not totally convinced that being self-sufficient is the golden key to maturity. I think it all depends on your attitude, how you approach challenges and whether you can make decisions in your long-term best interest. People may have looked at me externally and said, ‘‘Oh yes, yes, very mature for her age,’’ but internally, privately, personally, I had a lot of growing up to do. I think people think of maturity as a single characteristic or entity, but in my experience it covers a wide range of characteristics and situations, and it’s completely possible to be mature in one area but not another. > > So I don’t think you can fairly assess someone’s overall maturity based solely on their financial situation, especially not in the context of a culture that values interdependence. What skeeves me out is his refusal to introduce her to his family. Sounds like a case of good enough to fuck, not good enough to marry. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/24 "2010-05-01T21:49:30Z")
It also could very well be that in his culture, meeting the parents is a much larger (and more serious) step in a relationship than it is in America. Perhaps one doesn’t meet one’s partner’s parents until the relationship is well on its way to a marriage, rather than a casual dating situation. Note: I am ignorant of the culture in question. Just offering this as a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/25 "2010-05-01T23:02:21Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Most Americans think they have a chance at eternal paradise through magic, and you think this girl is delusional because she overestimates her maturity? You miscalculate dosages this morning, or what? Nope, I ODed on purpose. I like to hear the pretty colors. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/26 "2010-05-01T23:09:31Z")
> [@Surly\_Chick](#): > > Nope, most likely he’s just banging the gringa of (what is percieved as) low moral standards. It’s a fairly common occurance with young, female, American ex-pats. They think they’re in a relationship and the guy’s just using them for sex. One would never introduce her to one’s family. To male friends, yes, family, never. I actually think that’s pretty common with a lot of guys in a lot places. Yeah, in Latin America and lots of the world it’s pretty standard to live with one’s parents until marriage. That was about the only part of my post that wasn’t supposed to be sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/27 "2010-05-02T00:15:43Z")
As I said to my niece when she was 17 and thought she knew everything; “Your world is this big” (holds hands to size of basketball) “and you know this much of it” (holds hands slightly smaller) “So you think you know everything. But the world is…well, the size of this planet, and you only know this much (size) of it. Every day you’re going to learn more of it, sometimes the hard way, and someday it will dawn on you how little you really know.” This is where your friend is at. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/28 "2010-05-02T16:32:53Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > What skeeves me out is his refusal to introduce her to his family. Sounds like a case of good enough to fuck, not good enough to marry. I wasn’t initially thinking along those lines, but you’re right. She could just as easily be a bit on the side. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/29 "2010-05-02T17:24:44Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > What skeeves me out is his refusal to introduce her to his family. Sounds like a case of good enough to fuck, not good enough to marry. Meh, a lot of people are good enough to fuck, but not good enough to marry. Seems to me the OP and his lady friend are just annoyed by young women in general who like older men, particularly when claiming to do so because of maturity. If a 22 year old girl to me, “I like men 10 years older than I am because the boys my age are immature,” my response wouldn’t be, “Well you’re immature, too!” and explain to her just how immature and conformist her opinions are. I’d just say, “Okay.” Why would the girlfriend debate with Ann over whether or not she’s mature? Dude, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/30 "2010-05-02T19:47:38Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Meh, a lot of people are good enough to fuck, but not good enough to marry. > > Seems to me the OP and his lady friend are just annoyed by young women in general who like older men, particularly when claiming to do so because of maturity. If a 22 year old girl to me, “I like men 10 years older than I am because the boys my age are immature,” my response wouldn’t be, “Well you’re immature, too!” and explain to her just how immature and conformist her opinions are. I’d just say, “Okay.” Why would the girlfriend debate with Ann over whether or not she’s mature? Dude, whatever. This was basically my reaction as well. Because they are ostensibly friends, it’s unclear why anyone would respond this way in a conversation. Unless you didn’t like the person who made that comment, and wanted them to know it, I’m unclear why the belittling comments were necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/31 "2010-05-02T19:52:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > First off, let’s please keep religion out of this; it’s going to turn the whole thread into an argument about religion. And second, the potshot at the OP doesn’t belong in this forum. Thank you. You’re entirely right. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/32 "2010-05-03T01:13:48Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Meh, a lot of people are good enough to fuck, but not good enough to marry. > > Seems to me the OP and his lady friend are just annoyed by young women in general who like older men, particularly when claiming to do so because of maturity. If a 22 year old girl to me, “I like men 10 years older than I am because the boys my age are immature,” my response wouldn’t be, “Well you’re immature, too!” and explain to her just how immature and conformist her opinions are. I’d just say, “Okay.” Why would the girlfriend debate with Ann over whether or not she’s mature? Dude, whatever. Because some people value being right over being friends. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/33 "2010-05-03T01:32:03Z")
Well it wasn’t a debate at all. It was a conversation about why one would exclusively date much older men. Girlfriend proposed a theory about this topic. Ann proposed a theory of her own. I found Ann’s theory both annoying and amusing because her theory basically involved complimenting herself for traits she does not possess. We didn’t tell Ann we thought she was immature. As I wrote in my OP, “Of course I didn’t say this because Ann and Becca are both nice people who are fun to hang out with, and what would I gain by insulting them. But goddamn if I didn’t want to. Oh well that’s what anonymous rants on the internet are for.” I agree with what Olive wrote, about how maturity can take different forms, and can mean different things to different people. I don’t care if they want to date older dudes, and I really don’t care if they don’t live up to some nebulous standard of maturity. As I’ve previously stated, the thing that riled me a bit was the self delusional nature of their statements. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/34 "2010-05-03T01:46:49Z")
Eh, fair enough, I guess, but when I see this > [@](#): > > Now Ann views herself as quite the hippyish, non-conformist, feminist, and she’s very vocal about these views. My girlfriend (who is quite the smartass) says that Ann’s dating policy isn’t very non-conformist or feminist. I see the girlfriend going “Nuh uh! You’re not a non-conforming feminist that you think you are.” ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/35 "2010-05-03T01:48:19Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Meh, a lot of people are good enough to fuck, but not good enough to marry. > > Seems to me the OP and his lady friend are just annoyed by young women in general who like older men, particularly when claiming to do so because of maturity. If a 22 year old girl to me, “I like men 10 years older than I am because the boys my age are immature,” my response wouldn’t be, “Well you’re immature, too!” and explain to her just how immature and conformist her opinions are. I’d just say, “Okay.” Why would the girlfriend debate with Ann over whether or not she’s mature? Dude, whatever. I think you missed the part of the OP where I stated I didn’t call them on their bullshit reasoning because I didn’t want to insult them, hence the necessity of the internet rant. As to the initial comments that my girlfriend made, they were vague theories on the issue being discussed, not personal attacks. If you can’t take some general commentary on an issue you brought up, you must be pretty insecure. Personally I like having friends who I can have a debate with, or friends who give me honest feedback. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/36 "2010-05-03T01:52:17Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Eh, fair enough, I guess, but when I see this > > I see the girlfriend going “Nuh uh! You’re not a non-conforming feminist that you think you are.” I should have refreshed the window before I posted. My girl was being a bit of a smartass, although the conversation didn’t quite go down exactly like. But hey, I like smartasses. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/37 "2010-05-03T01:53:43Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I think you missed the part of the OP where I stated I didn’t call them on their bullshit reasoning because I didn’t want to insult them, hence the necessity of the internet rant. As to the initial comments that my girlfriend made, they were vague theories on the issue being discussed, not personal attacks. If you can’t take some general commentary on an issue you brought up, you must be pretty insecure. Personally I like having friends who I can have a debate with, or friends who give me honest feedback. Burned! pdts ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/38 "2010-05-03T02:00:47Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > Burned! > > pdts Really? I didn’t mean “you” as in Meanoldlady. I meant it in lieu of one. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/39 "2010-05-03T02:03:20Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Really? I didn’t mean “you” as in Meanoldlady. I meant it in lieu of one. Burned! ACM ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919/40 "2010-05-03T02:07:41Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > I think you missed the part of the OP where I stated I didn’t call them on their bullshit reasoning because I didn’t want to insult them, hence the necessity of the internet rant. As to the initial comments that my girlfriend made, they were vague theories on the issue being discussed, not personal attacks. If you can’t take some general commentary on an issue you brought up, you must be pretty insecure. Personally I like having friends who I can have a debate with, or friends who give me honest feedback. Woowee, somebody’s getting defensive. Believe it or not, sparky, I have friends who I don’t agree with on everything! I just get the impression overall that your feelings get hurt when girls your age say they want to date older men, and you get all “Why? You’re not that great or mature!” I could be wrong, though. It happened once. In the 80s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-delusions/537919.md?page=3)