# Self-deprecation, humor, and culture in Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445 "2013-10-28T12:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/1 "2013-10-28T12:28:13Z")
We visited my sister-in-law last summer in Belgium. We had a wonderful time. Early in the trip, since it was warmer than we expected, we went to a mall to buy some shorts for me (I only brought jeans). I’m a big, burly American dude who could stand to lose a few pounds. The first few stores we looked at did not have any shorts big enough for me. So I made a joke: “I must be too fat for Belgium”. My wife laughed, but my sister-in-law was shocked. She said I should never say things like that about myself. I think she took it as some sign I had low self-esteem or something. I didn’t make a big deal about it, but I was kind of surprised- I thought self-deprecation was universal. Is self-deprecating humor a uniquely American thing (or more likely, uniquely English-speaking, because I’m sure I’ve seen English and Australian celebrities make fun of themselves)? Is self-deprecation really unheard of in some cultures? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/2 "2013-10-28T12:55:57Z")
Perhaps they felt being overweight/obese was not something to joke about. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/3 "2013-10-28T12:59:59Z")
Self-deprecation certainly isn’t an American thing. I’m not even sure Americans are particularly well known for it, compared with, say, Brits, where modesty is prized high above boastfulness. Some cultures in Europe would use it less, but I wouldn’t say it’s unheard of. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/4 "2013-10-28T13:01:40Z")
You might want to expand your sample size. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/5 "2013-10-28T14:04:49Z")
Maybe “too fat for Belgium” is some sort of unpleasant Flemish idiom, and you inadvertently called yourself a Nazi or some such: “I’m so fat I could roll right through this country!” ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/6 "2013-10-28T14:13:52Z")
Yep. Come to the UK. Self-deprecation and sarcasm is a way of life here. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/7 "2013-10-28T14:16:38Z")
I’m going to suggest something different - A lot of Europeans perceive stereotypical Americans as being immense obese elephants, and they consider the obesity a deep moral failing, like alcoholism or gambling or drug addiction. But of course they would never say that to someones face. So, saying it about yourself is just like them saying it to your face, it’s just not…just not…well, you know…it’s just not talked about! It goes beyond the line of self-deprecating on this subject for them. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/8 "2013-10-28T14:24:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We visited my sister-in-law last summer in Belgium. We had a wonderful time. Glad that you had a good trip. > [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > You might want to expand your sample size. Yes, that’s the first thing to note. (Or maybe your sister-in-law thought you meant “I’m too fat **even** for Belgium”?) > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is self-deprecating humor a uniquely American thing (or more likely, uniquely English-speaking, because I’m sure I’ve seen English and Australian celebrities make fun of themselves)? I’ve lived in England for 60 years and visited the US several times. Based on that, I would say we English prize self-deprecation, whereas Americans go all out for **self-confidence**. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/9 "2013-10-28T14:38:24Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > You might want to expand your sample size. Good idea- maybe I’ll start a thread and ask for people’s opinions. Ok, done. This is post #9; so far the sample size has at least tripled, I believe, depending on the nationality of some of the posters so far. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/10 "2013-10-28T16:06:24Z")
it’s not deprecating its demeaning to oneself. aussies do it with just the right amount of je ne sais quoi. merkans don’t have the art. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/11 "2013-10-28T16:17:27Z")
> [@sentrix](#): > > it’s not deprecating its demeaning to oneself. aussies do it with just the right amount of je ne sais quoi. merkans don’t have the art. Aha, at last we might have a cultural counterpoint. Where are you from, **Sentrix**? Because it sounds like you come from somewhere where self-deprecation is seen as a negative. We Brits take the opposing view - hence our use of beloved phrases such as ‘nobody likes a show off’, ‘don’t blow your own trumpet’ and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/12 "2013-10-28T16:24:08Z")
swiss aussie. a weird mix me. fine line between self deprecating and demeaning oneself. boils down to the country you’re in, loss of face too. as seen by others. ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/13 "2013-10-28T16:28:28Z")
i will give you a example. i was in doha ( qatar) in suk wakif with my partner. he is well not ample but not what the arabs would call camel size. he said he was ‘fat’ and wanted ‘big size pants’ ( shorts in this instance) the arab guy who spoke perfect english asked him why he described himself as ‘fat’ not ‘well fed’ ---
**Author:** ![sentrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@sentrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sentrix)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/14 "2013-10-28T16:29:42Z")
it was actually funny but i felt weird. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/15 "2013-10-29T00:28:14Z")
It’s sort of a national sport in Australia. If you don’t do it yourself, your mates will do it for it! Probably one of the worst character traits to an Aussie is to be considered ‘up yourself’. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/16 "2013-10-29T01:05:33Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > It’s sort of a national sport in Australia. If you don’t do it yourself, your mates will do it for it! > > Probably one of the worst character traits to an Aussie is to be considered ‘up yourself’. . Yep, bingo. People who are overly self confident, cocky, have tickets on themself etc are bought back to size pretty quick. When clothes shopping for myself I’ve used the phrase “Do you have these (item of clothing) in size Fat Bastard? All I can find is the anorexics ones” ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/17 "2013-10-29T02:59:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > … So I made a joke: “I must be too fat for Belgium”. My wife laughed, but my sister-in-law was shocked. She said I should never say things like that about myself. I think she took it as some sign I had low self-esteem or something. > … I wonder whether, being in a way your hostess, she was worried that you felt bad or embarrassed about being too big for Belgium, and didn’t realise you were happy enough and just joking. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/18 "2013-10-29T03:43:22Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’ve lived in England for 60 years and visited the US several times. > Based on that, I would say we English prize self-deprecation, whereas Americans go all out for **self-confidence**. I’d add a lot of other Europeans to the self-deprecation list, but given that in many countries there is a concept of “American size”, joking that you’re it (specially when you’re not - you’re not, are you, **iiandyiii**?) is… grating. It’s not self-deprecating humor per se, it’s the specific phrasing and circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/19 "2013-10-29T03:57:40Z")
I just had a lightbulb moment… you broke the rule about “there are insults my people can apply to themselves that others cannot”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445/20 "2013-10-29T05:36:06Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > . > > Yep, bingo. People who are overly self confident, cocky, have tickets on themself etc are bought back to size pretty quick. Yeah, but that’s not quite _self_-deprecation, is it? There are things I can say about myself that I won’t let others say about me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-deprecation-humor-and-culture-in-europe/672445.md?page=2)