# self driving car meets menacing gang **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819 "2018-04-04T17:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/81 "2018-04-09T07:26:58Z")
I was going to be dismissive of the OP as yet another contrived what if, but actually this is a potential problem: not just criminal gangs but just people generally blocking cars in for the lolz or whatever. That’s why I think entirely self driving cars (with no manual controls) will need to have some external cameras and the ability to call the police. But those simple technologies will be sufficient to make “attacking a self driving car” something that requires planning and risk, and gives you a small window (heh) before the cops show up. It basically won’t be a thing; there are easier ways to attack someone. Sent from my Mi-4c using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/82 "2018-04-09T08:23:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > How do you deal with roadworks? Say your lane is closed and the area is temporarily controlled to allow cars to use the single remaining lane. Do they paint over the solid lines, or is it sometimes legal to cross them? You use common sense. 🙂 According to the letter of the law, the construction contractor is required to hire a uniformed policeman to direct traffic around his obstructions. And for a large project, they do. For a 100 meter-long job, not so much. And that is exactly the problem: How will an autonomous car use “common sense”?. I think this is the biggest problem that will delay self-driving cars. Imagine sitting in your car, which refuses to move, stopped behind a piece of construction machinery. You frantically call the help line from your car manufacturer, and hear the recording say “your call is important to us… Please wait for the next available operator”, repeated nonstop for 25 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/83 "2018-04-09T09:54:10Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Where I live, it is absolutely against the law. A solid line may never, ever be crossed for any reason. What country is that? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/84 "2018-04-09T10:12:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What country is that? Israel. A quick google shows that the same law (prohibiting crossing a white line) is also true in [France](https://www.justring.com/blog/practical-information-paris/driving-in-france) ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/85 "2018-04-09T11:55:08Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Israel. > A quick google shows that the same law (prohibiting crossing a white line) is also true in [France](https://www.justring.com/blog/practical-information-paris/driving-in-france) A sightly longer google indicates that nope, in France you [can](https://driving-france.co.uk/french-driving-laws/) legally cross a solid white line if your lane is blocked by an obstacle- fallen tree, broken down vehicle etc. You just can’t overtake, even if you’re stuck behind a tractor. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/86 "2018-04-09T15:17:38Z")
I know it’s in bad form to fight the hypothetical, but I don’t see a single compelling reason whatsoever for self-driving cars not to have a manual override and do away with at least token human controls, even if it’s in the form of a joystick hidden in some sort of dashboard compartment. But then I’m one of those guys who’s still dismayed that modern PCs are sold without a CD drive any more, so :). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/87 "2018-04-09T21:29:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I know it’s in bad form to fight the hypothetical, but I don’t see a single compelling reason whatsoever for self-driving cars not to have a manual override and do away with at least token human controls, even if it’s in the form of a joystick hidden in some sort of dashboard compartment. > > But then I’m one of those guys who’s still dismayed that modern PCs are sold without a CD drive any more, so :). Hey, I’m with you - if we rule out the giant buzzsaw blades that automatically deal with anything that gets too close to the car, then optional manual controls seem to the best option. However I wouldn’t be averse to the idea of your car calling the police on you for using them. There’s a fair chance you’re driving without a license after all 😛 and if you were using them to get out of a hairy situation there’s a reasonable chance they’d need to be informed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/88 "2018-04-17T01:06:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You say that like it’s a bad thing. Now, how do we get meatsack drivers to react the same way? Exactly! You know that autonomous cars (AC) are most certainly going to be programmed to go no faster than the speed limit posted for that section of road. Programming ACs to move over if approached from the rear is great if you’re on a 4 lane. What if its a 2 lane road? The safest condition is when all vehicles travel at roughly the same speed. Avg speed on freeway here (Calif) is usually 5-15mph above speed limit. Not at all unusual to have most traffic moving at 80-85mph under medium density conditions. These ACs are going to be a moving obstacle course. Even in small cities most traffic is moving above speed limit. On 2 lane roads at 55mph a line will form 10-20-30 cars long and then there is always at least 2 or 3 people who can’t take it anymore and tries to pass 5 cars at one time and wham! ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/89 "2018-04-17T02:06:48Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > Exactly! You know that autonomous cars (AC) are most certainly going to be programmed to go no faster than the speed limit posted for that section of road. Programming ACs to move over if approached from the rear is great if you’re on a 4 lane. What if its a 2 lane road? The safest condition is when all vehicles travel at roughly the same speed. Avg speed on freeway here (Calif) is usually 5-15mph above speed limit. Not at all unusual to have most traffic moving at 80-85mph under medium density conditions. These ACs are going to be a moving obstacle course. Even in small cities most traffic is moving above speed limit. On 2 lane roads at 55mph a line will form 10-20-30 cars long and then there is always at least 2 or 3 people who can’t take it anymore and tries to pass 5 cars at one time and wham! Except that if all ACs are programmed to respect the speed limit, then once you have a critical mass of ACs on the freeways, average speeds will drop to the speed limit. (Which will result in less traffic congestion and shorter journey times. Everyone’s a winner!) ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/90 "2018-04-17T04:39:13Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Except that if all ACs are programmed to respect the speed limit, then once you have a critical mass of ACs on the freeways, average speeds will drop to the speed limit. > > (Which will result in less traffic congestion and shorter journey times. Everyone’s a winner!) Agreed. But until that time there may be chaos! It would be great if magically all the cars ina congested city were ACs but alas. But where most of us drive any distance and with an increasing penetration of ACs into the market its going to be a problem for years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/91 "2018-04-17T05:18:18Z")
There are already plenty of vehicles that travel at, or under, the speed limit. It’s not a problem. If you’re on a 2 lane road you have to wait your chance to overtake – but on a two lane road why do you need to be going over the limit anyway? On the freeway, cars wanting to go 80mph will overtake the ACs just like they need to overtake many trucks. The only potential issue I see here is that overtaking safely often requires pushing past the speed limit briefly. I think self driving cars should do the same, but since they can’t bend the rules we need to explicitly, legally, decide how much is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/92 "2018-04-17T10:35:38Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > Exactly! You know that autonomous cars (AC) are most certainly going to be programmed to go no faster than the speed limit posted for that section of road. Programming ACs to move over if approached from the rear is great if you’re on a 4 lane. What if its a 2 lane road? The safest condition is when all vehicles travel at roughly the same speed. Avg speed on freeway here (Calif) is usually 5-15mph above speed limit. Not at all unusual to have most traffic moving at 80-85mph under medium density conditions. These ACs are going to be a moving obstacle course. Even in small cities most traffic is moving above speed limit. On 2 lane roads at 55mph a line will form 10-20-30 cars long and then there is always at least 2 or 3 people who can’t take it anymore and tries to pass 5 cars at one time and wham! It seems likely that autonomous cars are either going to be sufficiently rare that this isn’t a problem, or sufficiently ubiquitous that _they_ will define the speed that ‘most cars’ are travelling - bear in mind that as they approach a majority of vehicles, any of the following things may happen: [ul] [li]They start getting their own dedicated lanes[/li][li]They start being permitted their own (higher) speed limits[/li][li]They require less space on the road (i.e. between them and the car in front, due to better-than-human reaction times) - so they contribute to a relative reduction in traffic volume.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/93 "2018-04-17T15:50:03Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > The first time someone plows into an innocent family, despite the fact the cars sensors were well aware of the crowd of people in front of it, the car companies are going to be found liable (eventually in some jurisdiction). esp in the case in the OP, as in: > > Car: There are pedestrians in front of me I will come to a complete stop > Driver: That’s the marauder horde, nail it. > Car: I can’t do that Dave, my sensors clearly show that nailing it now would hit a whole bunch of pedestrian sized chunks I’d prefer: Driver: Turbo Boost K.I.T.T.! Car: Yes, Michael. _Car jumps over group of Mauraders_ ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/94 "2018-04-17T16:10:40Z")
Yeah, I can just see myself sitting helplessly as a passenger while my car drives 25 MPH through Oak Park and 55 MPH on the Dan Ryan, etc. I’d develop a nervous tic within a week. NOT!! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819/95 "2018-04-17T16:33:19Z")
Even if controls are removed for the occupant, there is sure to always be a emergency stop and emergency open the door. After that yan-yone (you’re on your own). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-car-meets-menacing-gang/811819.md?page=4)