# Self driving cars are still decades away **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499 "2017-10-10T17:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 120
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2388 "2025-01-06T14:44:25Z")
Correction: he was trapped in Scottsdale, AZ’s airport parking. And he apparently “almost” missed his flight. (“I missed my flight already” was apparently mistaken or exaggerated.) Still, stuck in a slow-cruising FSD taxi that won’t let you out feels like a particularly tedious form of hell. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2389 "2025-01-06T16:12:01Z")
This vintage tune was my first thought: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/S7Jw_v3F_Q0/hqdefault.jpg "The Kingston Trio - M.T.A.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jw_v3F_Q0) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2390 "2025-01-06T21:38:07Z")
That’s what happens when you don’t vote for George O’Brien! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2391 "2025-01-06T21:48:13Z")
Waymos do seem to get stuck in infinite loops on occasion: > ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2392 "2025-01-06T22:47:04Z")
The idea some vehicle somewhere got confused and did multiple loops is sorta unsurprising. The idea it eventually decided on its own to stop looping is to me the more surprising result. Unless that was an intervention by a remote human in a control center. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2393 "2025-01-06T22:51:17Z")
Neural nets typically have a “temperature” setting that allows them to occasionally choose a prediction with less than the highest confidence value (that’s why ChatGPT conversations are different each time). Maybe sometimes they just have to wait long enough for the “exit the loop here” prediction to get picked. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2025, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2394 "2025-01-06T23:21:47Z")
There is one particular parking lot at the Oxnard Harbor where I am around once a month. When I try to FSD home from there it will go in an endless loop in the lot. I try again with every new software release and it’s the same thing. I suspect that it’s a map issue and the car is expecting an exit where there isn’t one. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2395 "2025-01-07T20:52:38Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I suspect that it’s a map issue and the car is expecting an exit where there isn’t one The majority of my interventions in FSD(S) are due to mapping or routing errors, rather than actual driving errors. Just this morning I needed to make a left turn, and the route had me going past the street, then making a u-turn and come back, even though there is a perfectly good left turn lane where I wanted to go. This meant I had to take over from FSD(S). It makes lots of sense that if there is a mapping or routing error in the parking lot, the car will be stuck driving in circles, because it can never find the exit. There should be some form of memory where the self driving realizes it is in a loop, and asks for help, or tries a different exit. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2396 "2025-01-26T23:02:06Z")
Should Waymo add some self-defense mechanisms? > **[WAYMO NOMO \*Warning \*Vandalism | LOS ANGELES, CA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rus6134o1Ds%2F)** > > 1.25.25LOS ANGELES, CA - A crowd of people damaged a self-driving Waymo vehicle in Los Angeles’ Beverly Grove neighborhood early Saturday, police said. Polic... ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2025, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2397 "2025-01-26T23:45:22Z")
Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2398 "2025-01-27T17:17:39Z")
Nothing can go wrong. Go wrong. Go wrong. Go wrong … ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2399 "2025-01-29T01:23:16Z")
Maybe a bit off topic. Vandals attack and destroy a Waymo in Beverly Hills. [https://ktla.com/news/local-news/vandals-in-southern-california-attack-waymo-driverless-taxi/](https://ktla.com/news/local-news/vandals-in-southern-california-attack-waymo-driverless-taxi/) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2400 "2025-01-29T01:41:25Z")
Psst. Look 3 posts up from yours. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2401 "2025-01-29T01:58:14Z")
“Beverly Grove”, not “Beverly Hills”. When I first read about this I assumed Beverly Grove was a lower income/inner city neighborhood of LA–but it turns out not to be: median family income of $119,000/year. > **[Beverly Grove, Los Angeles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverly_Grove,_Los_Angeles)** > > Beverly Grove is an area within the Beverly–Fairfax neighborhood in the Mid-City West region of Los Angeles, California. > The term "Beverly Grove" was first used in 2006 to unofficially refer to a small residential area that was proposed to be subject to an anti-mansionization ordinance. It referred to an area in the Wilshire Community Plan area that was generally bounded by Colgate Avenue on the north, Fairfax Avenue on the east, Lindenhurst Avenue on the south, and San Vicente Boulevard on th... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2402 "2025-01-29T02:01:12Z")
Beverly Grove is immediately adjacent to Beverly Hills. and much more ordinary but with a hefty contribution of semi-high end retail & dining. BG is ordinary comfy-class professionals with Mercedes. BH is the people with several Mercedes and a driver or two. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2403 "2025-01-29T05:06:45Z")
Well I fucked that up ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2025, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2404 "2025-01-29T23:29:41Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Listening to Tesla’s Q3 conference call. Mostly reiterating their dedication to autonomy, etc. But one interesting bit from my perspective is that Musk is sounding skeptical that HW3 will be able to achieve full autonomy. However, he also clearly said that if this happens, all HW3 customers will be upgraded for free. And now we’re in Q4, and Musk has said flat-out that HW3 will not be enough. They’ll continue pushing out updates for a while, but eventually upgrade everyone (he said he’s kinda glad that not too many people bought FSD back then). ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2405 "2025-01-30T00:44:10Z")
So, that’s everyone who paid the $15K who gets the HW4 upgrade? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2406 "2025-01-30T00:48:22Z")
Yes. Or $3k in my case. To be clear, they promised previously that everyone will be upgraded if it proves necessary. The change is that yes, it turns out to be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499/2407 "2025-01-30T00:51:46Z")
Do you think a lawsuit is likely from people who didn’t pay for that upgrade? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499.md?page=119) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-driving-cars-are-still-decades-away/798499.md?page=121)