# Self-immolation: good idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 17, 2011, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814 "2011-06-17T11:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/1 "2011-06-17T11:15:31Z")
So I came across [this story](http://www.nhpr.org/massachusetts-man-chose-keene-courthouse-death), in which a man burned himself to death on the steps of a court-house in America somewhere. Alleged last word: > [@](#): > > On one hand we have the law. On the other hand we have what we are really going to do-the policies, procedures and protocols. The rule of law is dead. Now we have 50 states with legal systems as good as any third world banana republic. Men are demonized and the women and children end up as suffering as well. > > So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. The Second Set of Books originated in Washington. But the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out Based on that last bit, you might think he was intending to set the court on fire and missed, but let’s ignore that for now. And I’ve heard of it happening in Vietnam during the war there, and so on. Basically, 1. Is it effective as a tactic? I can see that it might draw attention, but does it get sympathy and remedial political action, or just make you look like a flaming loonatic? 2. Is it heroic or wasteful? Obviously, in a sense, you’re sacrificing yourself for a cause, but it another sense you’re killing yourself with no obvious and immediate gain to be had, and will be too dead too appreciate any potential gains you might bring about in the distant future. Not unrelated questions, I know. Didn’t seem to do much good in Vietnam, did it? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/2 "2011-06-17T11:22:53Z")
Self-immolation was what started the revolution in Tunisia and the whole Arab Spring. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/3 "2011-06-17T12:15:28Z")
The flames last forever in your memory, but the memory of their reason will die with the ashes. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/4 "2011-06-17T12:34:39Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Self-immolation was what started the revolution in Tunisia and the whole Arab Spring. Ah yes, I forgot all about that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/5 "2011-06-17T12:36:28Z")
Well, not only are you dead, but since you _are_ dead you’ll never know if it worked, and never be able to try a different strategy if it fails. It’s all or nothing, with an excellent change of “nothing”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/6 "2011-06-17T13:06:43Z")
Mythbusters episode! I nominate Grant. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/7 "2011-06-17T13:20:40Z")
Teach a man to fish, and he can feed himself, but set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/8 "2011-06-17T14:23:35Z")
At the very least it will get you to quit worrying about whatever is bothering you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/9 "2011-06-17T14:31:13Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Teach a man to fish, and he can feed himself, > but set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life. Teach a man to fish, and he’ll have food for the rest of his life Set a man on fire, and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/10 "2011-06-17T17:25:35Z")
This is a great thread title. Yes, self-immolation is a good idea! ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/11 "2011-06-17T17:50:35Z")
I wonder basically the same thing about most forms of non-violent protest. I don’t see why they are supposed to work at all. When people that I disagree with chain themselves to things, set themselves on fire, or starve themselves to death, I consider that entertaining at least and probably somewhat helpful to to me and my views in general. What is the downside for others supposed to be? I would be thrilled if lots of people that were against my goals just set themselves on fire but I don’t expect them to do that. Apparently some will under some circumstances however. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/12 "2011-06-17T18:00:45Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I wonder basically the same thing about most forms of non-violent protest. I don’t see why they are supposed to work at all. When people that I disagree with chain themselves to things, set themselves on fire, or starve themselves to death, I consider that entertaining at least and probably somewhat helpful to to me and my views in general. What is the downside for others supposed to be? I would be thrilled if lots of people that were against my goals just set themselves on fire but I don’t expect them to do that. Apparently some will under some circumstances however. Awesome. I don’t know if I’d call self-immolation “non-violent”. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/13 "2011-06-17T18:03:17Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I don’t know if I’d call self-immolation “non-violent”. I wasn’t sure either. Is fasting nonviolent if the person dies from it? I don’t get hung up on the technicalities if the person is just doing it to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/14 "2011-06-17T20:07:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Teach a man to fish, and he’ll have food for the rest of his life > Set a man on fire, and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life I believe it’s: Give a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life I think I picked that up from this very message board. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/15 "2011-06-17T20:11:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I believe it’s: > > Give a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day > Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life > > I think I picked that up from this very message board. My correction stands corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Rain\_Soaked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rain\_Soaked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rain_Soaked)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/16 "2011-06-17T20:48:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I believe it’s: > > Give a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day > Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life > > I think I picked that up from this very message board. “Give a man a fire and he’s warm for the day, but set fire to him and he’s warm for the rest of his life.” — Terry Pratchett (Jingo) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/17 "2011-06-17T20:52:55Z")
> [@Rain\_Soaked](#): > > “Give a man a fire and he’s warm for the day, but set fire to him and he’s warm for the rest of his life.” > — Terry Pratchett (Jingo) I don’t know, I think the version I posted is closer to the original fish version and has better cadence. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/18 "2011-06-17T22:42:44Z")
Build a fire for a man and he’s warm for the rest of the day Build a fire of a man and he’s warm for the rest of his life ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/19 "2011-06-17T23:05:52Z")
I’m not a fan of martyrs; I’ve seen too many of them. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814/20 "2011-06-18T07:57:26Z")
Some more stories about the original case: > **[Familiar refrain: Why?](https://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/familiar-refrain-why/article_55cf9c4b-c97a-5beb-8bb9-5dbc6d399b62.html?mode=story)** > > For a time Wednesday evening, Thomas Ball’s death outside the Cheshire County Court House transformed a familiar spot in the heart of Keene into a landscape of grim-faced first responders, > **[American Father Self-Immolates To Protest Against Family Courts](https://www.ibtimes.com/american-father-self-immolates-protest-against-family-courts-291497)** > > On June 15, a 58-year-old New Hampshire man named Thomas Ball set himself on fire in front of a county courthouse. It happened around 5:30 p.m. Ball was pronounced dead at the scene. The reaction seems to be that he’s a “deadbeat dad”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-immolation-good-idea/585814.md?page=2)