# Self-loader, or Bolt-action? Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428 "2017-04-14T04:23:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/21 "2017-04-15T05:44:00Z")
I took stock and I have an equal number of semis and bolts. And a single lever (Win 1894). Most are C&R so I got what I could at the time. I think overall I prefer the experience of bolt. In retrospect, my .22 would be a bolt. I know people love their 10/22s but I am rather “meh” about mine. I don’t really care for single shot but the Ruger No 1 looks cool. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/22 "2017-04-15T14:44:02Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Design consequence. The M-58 to G3 family are all roller-delayed blowback guns, not dissimilar from the action of an MG42. The rollers hardly retard the bolt much at all, and it’s very _nearly_ a 30-caliber _straight_ blowback rifle. :smack: Not 100% dissimilar but the MG42 is still short recoil operated. There are rollers locking the bolt but they are cammed out of the way while the bolt and barrel move a short distance to the rear together, freeing the bolt to them move back independently: it isn’t the pressure of the cartridge pushing them out of the way as in ‘semi rigid’ roller locking. The CETME/G3 family’s mechanism however is almost identical to that of the lesser known ‘simplified’ MG42V eventually designated MG45: semi-rigid roller locking, fluted chamber, etc. A postwar legal battle eventually found the G3 subject to the Grossfuss co’s retroactively re-filed patents for the MG45. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/23 "2017-04-16T02:26:22Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > The CETME/G3 family’s mechanism however is almost identical to that of the lesser known ‘simplified’ MG42V eventually designated MG45: semi-rigid roller locking, fluted chamber, etc. A postwar legal battle eventually found the G3 subject to the Grossfuss co’s retroactively re-filed patents for the MG45. Fair point. OTOH, if you look at the trunions - or bolts - you’ll get a distinct case of _deja vu_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/24 "2017-04-16T08:54:02Z")
It’s basically impossible for recreational or sports shooters in Australia to own a semi-auto longarm, so my preference is for a bolt-action (ideally a Lee-Enfield 😃 ). However, I’m extremely fond of Martini-action rifles (a type of falling block action) - there’s something very _definite_ about pulling the lever down, hearing the case eject, shoving another round into the breech, pulling the lever up and feeling the action close, shouldering the rifle, and knowing you’ve got _one_ shot to work with - so make it count. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/25 "2017-04-16T16:27:33Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > However, I’m extremely fond of Martini-action rifles (a type of falling block action) - there’s something very _definite_ about pulling the lever down, hearing the case eject, shoving another round into the breech, pulling the lever up and feeling the action close, shouldering the rifle, and knowing you’ve got _one_ shot to work with - so make it count. I’m a fan of the Martini-Henry as well. I put those down as the best of the various primary and secondary falling block martial arms. Heck, I would even pick one over the Springfield trap doors. They just have a really great feel. Now of the .303 versions were just somewhat cheaper in the US market ---------- ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/26 "2017-04-16T23:00:46Z")
Ruger made the No 1 in .303 a couple of years back; there’s still a few of them floating around Australia in new condition - although they’re more expensive than an original Martini-Enfield. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/27 "2017-04-16T23:04:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s basically impossible for recreational or sports shooters in Australia to own a semi-auto longarm, so my preference is for a bolt-action (ideally a Lee-Enfield 😃 ). > > However, I’m extremely fond of Martini-action rifles (a type of falling block action) - there’s something very _definite_ about pulling the lever down, hearing the case eject, shoving another round into the breech, pulling the lever up and feeling the action close, shouldering the rifle, and knowing you’ve got _one_ shot to work with - so make it count. Ah, the Smelly. 🙂 I’ve never actually had the chance to fire one, but I’d love to. Their reputation is absolutely stellar. The ‘Mad Minute’ - 12 aimed shots in a minute is the standard, and any bolt action rifle that can enable that has nothing to prove to anyone. 🙂 The Martini rifles are legendary, and that’s another rifle type I’ve never had the pleasure of firing. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Ruger made the No 1 in .303 a couple of years back; there’s still a few of them floating around Australia in new condition - although they’re more expensive than an original Martini-Enfield. Ruger No.1 is outstanding single-shot, if that’s what you’re limited to. I definately prefer repeaters, but you could do a _lot_ worse than a No.1. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/28 "2017-04-16T23:28:20Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Ah, the Smelly. 🙂 I’ve never actually had the chance to fire one, but I’d love to. Their reputation is absolutely stellar. The ‘Mad Minute’ - 12 aimed shots in a minute is the standard, and any bolt action rifle that can enable that has nothing to prove to anyone. No they don’t. I own two of them - a Mark III that **Martini Enfield** has identified as having been produced during the Battle of Britain and a No. 4. The Mark III is my shooter, and a sweet piece she is. The No. 4 is cherry. Never had a round through it. I took it out of the wrapper and cleaned all the cosmoline (or whatever the British equivalent was) off it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/29 "2017-04-17T02:02:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > No they don’t. I own two of them - a Mark III that **Martini Enfield** has identified as having been produced during the Battle of Britain and a No. 4. The Mark III is my shooter, and a sweet piece she is. The No. 4 is cherry. Never had a round through it. I took it out of the wrapper and cleaned all the cosmoline (or whatever the British equivalent was) off it myself. _ENVY._ There’s a presentation No.4 at a local gunshop with vernier sights and a bunch of other special bits - Select walnut stock, special bluing, etc. Basically, the armory went NUTS making this rifle, for presentation to some brass hat. It’s _WAY_ out of my price range, though. ☹ One of the shop employees is British, and his teeth hurt every day he goes to work; even with employee discount, it’s out of his reach. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/30 "2017-04-17T02:36:44Z")
All my pistols are auto-loaders all my rifles are bolt action… go figure. Philosophically I prefer auto-loaders because if I need to fire a second round I don’t want to go to a lot of trouble to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/31 "2017-04-17T04:51:11Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > _ENVY._ > > There’s a presentation No.4 at a local gunshop with vernier sights and a bunch of other special bits - Select walnut stock, special bluing, etc. Basically, the armory went NUTS making this rifle, for presentation to some brass hat. It’s _WAY_ out of my price range, though. ☹ One of the shop employees is British, and his teeth hurt every day he goes to work; even with employee discount, it’s out of his reach. :smack: Get me some details and I can probably give you a month, year and place of manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/32 "2017-04-17T17:05:39Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > I used to own a Model 94 in .30-30, but that went away in one of my trades many years ago. I will admit to _thinking_ about getting a Henry in .22lr. But probably not - there are VZ24s and G88s and similar out there calling my name… 😛 I bought a Henry .22LR lever action a couple of years ago, and liked it so much I bought another, slightly different, model. I couldn’t bring myself to put a scope on either one, but I can’t see well enough to use open sights. So, one has an aperture (peep) sight, and the other has a low-profile holographic red dot sight. The action is so smooth on these, they are a treat to shoot. And fun, yeah, because of the whole cowboy/western movie thing. Go ahead and get one. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/33 "2017-04-17T17:08:37Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Get me some details and I can probably give you a month, year and place of manufacture. Next time I’m there, I’ll collect them. Very cool, and thank you! > [@Orwell](#): > > The action is so smooth on these, they are a treat to shoot. And fun, yeah, because of the whole cowboy/western movie thing. Go ahead and get one. Consider my arm twisted. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/34 "2017-04-17T17:39:37Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > The action is so smooth on these, they are a treat to shoot. And fun, yeah, because of the whole cowboy/western movie thing. Go ahead and get one. One of the things that tickles me about my Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun is that it was thr real world basis for Medicine Stick in Fallout New Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/35 "2017-04-17T18:26:16Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > One of the things that tickles me about my Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun is that it was thr real world basis for Medicine Stick in Fallout New Vegas. Game designers are continually trolling reality and online sources for inspirations for new skins. Ian McCollum of [Forgotten Weapons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Weapons) fame is actually retained by game designers every now and again for his knowledge of obscure historical weapons. He’s not the only one. The Marlin .45-70 is a great rifle firing a BEAST of a cartridge, and pretty much answers any questions about whether or not a lever gun can be strong. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/36 "2017-04-17T19:19:07Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > One of the things that tickles me about my Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun is that it was thr real world basis for Medicine Stick in Fallout New Vegas. Brush gun is the generic/non-GRA version. The series has always used real-world inspirations while adding their own scifi feel (stock of this real gun, barrel from another, held on by duct tape). But New Vegas was the most realistic (10 mm is actually powerful), and my favorite “I own that” moment was This Machine, basically a Garand. A .45-70, Marlin 1895SBL according to IMFDB, is used by the main character in Jurassic World. Interestingly, he has one of those rare models that can be fired semi auto :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/37 "2017-04-17T19:44:36Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > A .45-70, Marlin 1895SBL according to IMFDB, is used by the main character in Jurassic World. Interestingly, he has one of those rare models that can be fired semi auto :dubious: Heh. Hollywood and Literature frequently get that kind of detail wrong - They don’t feel bound by reality. Which is fair, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/38 "2017-04-19T18:03:43Z")
What’s wrong with a pump gun, again? Remington 7600, 30.06. Never a problem and plenty accurate enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/39 "2017-04-19T18:44:09Z")
Pump rifles aren’t terribly popular. Not many made today, and nothing wrong with them, just most examples are 40+ years old. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428/40 "2017-04-19T18:47:41Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > The Marlin .45-70 is a great rifle firing a BEAST of a cartridge, and pretty much answers any questions about whether or not a lever gun can be strong. I used to own one of those when I lived in Alaska. It was my “Him or Me” bear gun. Never had to use it for real, but it was fun to shoot. “Beast” is an accurate description of the loading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-loader-or-bolt-action-why/784428.md?page=3)