# "Self Made Man" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2006, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822 "2006-01-27T06:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/1 "2006-01-27T06:49:43Z")
Quick, look at the pictures on this [site](http://www.norahvincent.net/SelfMadeMan.htm). Does that… …really look like a man to you? That’s a picture of Norah Vincent, a female author who dressed up as a man for a year and a half to find out how the other half lives, I guess. (The book’s been getting a surprising amount of press – The New York Times, NPR, Conan O’Brien, among others.) Now, it’s hard to really judge from just a few pictures, but if that person was walking towards you, do you think you really wouldn’t be able to tell that it was a woman in drag? Even if you believed it was a man, wouldn’t it have a somewhat disconcerting femininity/androgyny? Apparently the author wanted especially to infiltrate the world of blue collar men, but I can’t imagine that many blue collar types would unquestioningly accept him/her as one of their own. And I can’t help but wonder how that would affect the author’s interpretations of her experiences. Not to mention that, in the interview on Conan I just saw, I got the impression that the author prescribed to a particular cliche of men – that we’re variations on the Tim “the Toolman” Taylor character. What do you think? \*\* Mods, it is a book, but because of the nature of the question I didn’t know if it should go here or Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![socal57chevy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@socal57chevy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/socal57chevy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/2 "2006-01-27T06:54:38Z")
I agree! Looks like she wanted to infiltrate the blue collar towel boy society at the local San franciso YMCA!! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/3 "2006-01-27T06:56:19Z")
I read the NY Times Book Review about this story, and if the reviewer is to be believed, she does not stereotype and is quite warm toward her subjects. In the ‘male’ picture on her on the cover of that issue, I felt she could probably pass as a guy. The picture on the site looks lousy by contrast. She made a babyfaced, looks-younger-than-he-is type of guy, sure, but didn’t look so obviously female that I can say for sure I’d have picked her out on the street. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/4 "2006-01-27T07:01:09Z")
I liked [the movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089393/) better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/5 "2006-01-27T07:03:27Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I liked [the movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089393/) better. I preferred [this version](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_night), and [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_you_like_it). ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/6 "2006-01-27T07:11:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I preferred [this version](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_night), and [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_you_like_it). Yeah, but neither of those are a journalist going undercover for a story as part of the ruse. This broad basically cribbed the entire concept down to the haircut. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/7 "2006-01-27T07:23:14Z")
Sure, I see the difference. Then again, who the hell has actually seen _Just One of the Guys_? ---
**Author:** ![Regardie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Regardie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regardie)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/8 "2006-01-27T07:26:58Z")
Is this more rare than a man dressing up as a female and passing? That happens more often, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/9 "2006-01-27T07:33:39Z")
I think the inspiration was more from [this](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451192036/qid=1138346506/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-0283055-6668619?s=books&v=glance&n=283155). (Can you accept [this](http://www.angelfire.com/or3/tss4/John.jpg) as a black man?) > [@Marley23](#): > > In the ‘male’ picture on her on the cover of that issue, I felt she could probably pass as a guy. The picture on the site looks lousy by contrast. She made a babyfaced, looks-younger-than-he-is type of guy, sure, but didn’t look so obviously female that I can say for sure I’d have picked her out on the street. [This](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0670034665/ref=dp_image_text_0/103-0283055-6668619?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books) is the cover of the book; I think (?) that’s the picture they used in the NY Times article. Even in that picture the effect is a bit off-putting. It’s the lips and the shape of the face, I guess. I suppose I’d accept her as a male; every time you see a somewhat mannish woman or an effiminate man you don’t assume it’s a person in drag. But I would have a very hard time accepting her as the _type_ of man she wanted to come across as. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/10 "2006-01-27T07:35:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Sure, I see the difference. Then again, who the hell has actually seen _Just One of the Guys_? Oh it’s one of the seminal 80’s movies. Everyone’s seen it. Joyse Hyser’s cans are stellar. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/11 "2006-01-27T07:35:43Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > [This](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0670034665/ref=dp_image_text_0/103-0283055-6668619?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books) is the cover of the book; I think (?) that’s the picture they used in the NY Times article. It’s not the same, but it’s similar. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/12 "2006-01-27T07:36:25Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/13 "2006-01-27T07:38:17Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > I think the inspiration was more from [this](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451192036/qid=1138346506/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-0283055-6668619?s=books&v=glance&n=283155). (Can you accept [this](http://www.angelfire.com/or3/tss4/John.jpg) as a black man?) [Ahem](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091991/), yes the 80’s were truly revolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/14 "2006-01-27T07:44:15Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > [Ahem](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091991/), yes the 80’s were truly revolutionary. Yes, more time-killing fodder that would be forgotten if Comedy Central didn’t rerun the hell out of it… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/15 "2006-01-27T07:48:31Z")
It’s one of many things I wish would vacate my brain, but alas I’m resigned to the fact they will be with me to my dying days. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2006, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-made-man/341822/16 "2006-01-27T09:31:05Z")
What kind of blue collar guy wears a suit and tie?