# Self-Proclaimed King Has Become the Court Jester **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** basketball-nba\ **Created:** [May 1, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752 "2025-05-01T14:53:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/21 "2025-05-06T13:36:01Z")
“If nautical nonsense be something you wish…” ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/22 "2025-05-06T14:51:03Z")
That sort of proves my points; first, that people (assuming I’m typical) remember his Wizards years as being worse than they objectively were. The perception _at the time_ was that he was embarrassing himself by continuing to play long after his prime, and that perception has hardened as time moves on and memories get fuzzier. And second, that nobody in the world today actually thinks Jordan’s legacy was “tarnished” by those Washington years. We remember the greatness. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/23 "2025-05-07T18:14:52Z")
Huh. I thought Lebron was still doing pretty well. I bet next season is his last, but I don’t see him doing so badly. I thought he was still a star. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/24 "2025-05-07T20:40:01Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I thought he was still a star. ESPN listed him in the top ten most impactful players just a couple months ago. > **[NBA Rank, playoffs edition: The 50 most impactful players for 2025](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/44720427/nba-playoffs-2025-ranking-luka-lebron-jokic-tatum-50-most-impactful-players)** > > From MVP hopefuls to postseason heroes, we're counting down the top 50 players who will decide the 2025 playoffs. That’s a drop-off from best player in the NBA but he’s still considered a star. Yahoo had him listed as the 5th best player in the postseason. > **[2025 NBA playoffs: Ranking the top 40 players in the postseason](https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/2025-nba-playoffs-ranking-the-top-40-players-in-the-postseason-045257313.html)** > > Superstars, proven vets and potential breakouts. Here's our list of the best players in the postseason. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2025, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/25 "2025-05-08T11:46:36Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yahoo had him listed as the 5th best player in the postseason. His “post season” consisted of a mere 5 games in a first round elimination. Yahoo should think again, and he didn’t even exist in the 4th quarters of the last two games. I feel I have to reiterate this again. My issue isn’t with him being a great player. His career proves he is. My issue is with his constant SELF-promotion as the greatEST player of all time. He’s not. He’s not a “legend in his own time”, he’s a “legend in his own mind”. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2025, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/26 "2025-05-12T06:30:30Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > His “post season” consisted of a mere 5 games in a first round elimination. Yahoo should think again, and he didn’t even exist in the 4th quarters of the last two games. His team lost and you picked two whole quarters he didn’t do well, so he didn’t play well? Advanced stats (VORP, Win Shares, Box Plus/Minus, and PER) say he did. Do you have any part of the argument other than “the Lakers sucked” for your opinion? > [@Jasmine](#): > > I feel I have to reiterate this again. My issue isn’t with him being a great player. His career proves he is. My issue is with his constant SELF-promotion as the greatEST player of all time. He’s not. The last time I can find he called himself the GOAT was just before he broke the all-time scoring record…two years ago. That’s one of those times when you can probably be excused a little brashness. Definitely has never seemed “constant.” > [@Jasmine](#): > > He’s not a “legend in his own time”, he’s a “legend in his own mind”. What? You can dislike the flopping, the backseat managing, the repeated bouncing between teams to win championships, his crying to the refs, his corniness, his politics, or any of a number of things, but basketball fans have been blessed to watch a generational talent to carry Jordan’s and Bryant’s torches to today’s Euro player renaissance. He’s absolutely a legend in his own time. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2025, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/27 "2025-05-12T11:37:47Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You can dislike the flopping, the backseat managing, the repeated bouncing between teams to win championships, his crying to the refs, his corniness, his politics, or any of a number of things, Holy cow, you just proved my point. Yes, I dislike all those things but, what I intensely loathe, is his monumental ego and relentless self-promotion. If the human ego actually had mass, he would collapse into a singularity. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/28 "2025-05-13T02:29:02Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > relentless self-promotion You keep saying this, and yet have provided no evidence of it, along with the “faded caricature” statement. > [@Jasmine](#): > > Holy cow, you just proved my point. After you’ve repeatedly pointed out that’s not your point? Explain, please. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/29 "2025-05-13T14:11:10Z")
Are you similarly bothered by Michael Jordan’s “monumental ego and relentless self-promotion”, or is this just a Lebron thing? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/30 "2025-05-13T15:07:00Z")
If you can’t see the difference between Michael Jordan and the respect he had for the game and its players and LeBron James, then any further discussion is fruitless. LeBron James was the major force behind that “Load Management” bullshit that allows these rich, pampered players to sit out games and cheat fans who pay huge prices to see them. If you listen to Charles Barkley and all those veteran Hall of Fame players that do commentary, they all are heavily against that. We’re never going to convince each other. I hate him, his ego, and how he has manipulated and diminished the game. You love him. The end. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/31 "2025-05-13T15:19:33Z")
The fact that the NBA had to ask Jordan if he was gambling on his own games was pretty humiliating. > **[Michael Jordan Was Asked By NBA If He Was Gambling On Bulls Games After They...](https://hoopswire.com/michael-jordan-nba-gambling-debt-chicago-bulls-news-rumors-history/)** > > The NBA asked Michael Jordan if he was gambling on Chicago Bulls games after they found out he had a $1.2 million gambling debt. That seems worse than anything LeBron has done. That doesn’t, to me, diminish Jordan’s absolute mastery of the game of basketball, nor does it diminish the importance of what he did to raise the profile of basketball worldwide. Basketball gained international prominence based in large part on his celebrity. But he absolutely did things that tarnished his reputation. He had his demons. Primarily the gambling thing, which for a sports figure is a big deal. Especially in the NBA, where we had massive scandals around the same time regarding gambling from referees of all people. > [@Jasmine](#): > > I hate him, his ego, and how he has manipulated and diminished the game. You have personal issues with LeBron James, and felt the need to open a thread in The Game Room for it? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/32 "2025-05-13T16:56:17Z")
The way people have an obsessive hatred of LeBron is hilarious. Man’s a legend. I grew up in Chicago during the Bulls heyday and have been to every home playoff game of the last two playoff runs, and I’ve got no beef with him. He’s up there with Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/33 "2025-05-13T17:01:42Z")
So much this. I have nothing else Game Room-worthy to add. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/34 "2025-05-13T17:47:57Z")
[**LeBron James late withdrawal from 2025 All-Star game because of “foot discomfort”. Not “injury” … “discomfort”.**](https://6amcity.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/73f6ef4/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4277x2408+0+222/resize/1000x563!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fk1-prod-sixam-city.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com%2Fbrightspot%2F2e%2Ffc%2F10eb1d3941e48a029509108496af%2Fusatsi-25434878.jpg) The All-Star game amounts to a light scrimmage, and every player is a star, so nobody is working out there. He could of suited up and gone out there and played 15 minutes. He makes half a million dollars a game because of the fans to which he obviously feels he owes no thanks. I credit Shannon Sharp for calling him out for being selfish and depriving another worthy player a spot on the roster. James didn’t do it because he wanted his mug on TV. even though he knew he wasn’t going to play. That’s him in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/35 "2025-05-13T17:59:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The way people have an obsessive hatred of LeBron is hilarious. Really, or is it well deserved? I’m a MA native and grew up a Celtics fan. The Lakers were the Celtics main threat and nemesis, but I never hated or even disliked a single Lakers’ star. I admired Kareem, Magic, James Worthy, Kobe, etc, etc. They were hard working, dedicated to the game, and great ambassadors of the game as well as their own team. The players from the 80’s and 90’s raised the NBA to its zenith. Now, their viewership is down 12% this year, and the viewership for the 2025 All-Star game was bad. Fans know when they are being short changed and disrespected. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/36 "2025-05-13T19:00:54Z")
When Jordan was LeBron’s age, he had just retired, posting a 20-6-5 in his final season; he’d had basically the same season the year before, for teams which each went 35-47 and missed the playoffs. Lebron in the past couple years has averaged 26-7-8 for playoff teams. So it seems odd to say that his late-career performance has been more embarrassing that the guy who once took a couple years off due to [“lack of desire to play basketball”](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-10-07-mn-43272-story.html). 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2025, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/37 "2025-05-13T20:52:22Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > LeBron James was the major force behind that “Load Management” bullshit that allows these rich, pampered players to sit out games and cheat fans who pay huge prices to see them. This is bullshit. If you want to blame someone for load management, blame Greg Popovitch. And then blame all the sports scientists and coaches for copying his (succesful) strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/38 "2025-05-15T16:44:01Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > So it seems odd to say that his late-career performance has been more embarrassing that the guy who once took a couple years off due to [“lack of desire to play basketball”](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-10-07-mn-43272-story.html). 🙄 You mean after his Dad was murdered? Real classy rolleyes about that… He also didn’t miss a game that last year. Played all 82 with a bad knee. LeBron’s own teammates don’t even react when he plays possom anymore. Writhing on the floor, slapping the hardwood like he’s just been run over by a truck. Embarrasing and nobody cares when he plays hurt, and then he gets up a few minutes later suddenly and amazingly recovered. Roll eyes indeed. Especially when talks about how he’s a football player who loves contact. L O effing L ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/39 "2025-05-15T17:16:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You mean after his Dad was murdered? Real classy rolleyes about that… Seriously, he actually said that?! That’s a CHEAP SHOT in all caps. Doesn’t get any worse than that. 😳 ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752/40 "2025-05-23T02:08:46Z")
how would you know? You already said earlier you weren’t following the NBA at that time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/self-proclaimed-king-has-become-the-court-jester/1017752.md?page=3)