Get a VW with the TDI Diesel engine. Up to 50MPG on diesel, more than makes up for the increased cost of diesel fuel (do the math), and no battery-dependent hybrid systems to worry about. Batteries will go bad at some point and it will be expen$ive.
It is interesting to do some browsing on the EPA’s http://www.fueleconomy.gov website. They offer the EPA estimated city, highway and combined numbers, but the real value is in comparing what the EPA estimates are with the average fuel economy of people who post to report their mileage. Though it may be slightly self-selecting, and is based on small sample sizes, there is often a great disparity in values, suggesting EPA numbers ain’t all that.
As an example, the EPA value for one of our cars, a 2005 Honda S2000, is 17 city, 23 highway, with an EPA combine estimated of 20 MPG. If you look at what drivers have reported, however, you find a low of 25 and a high of 32 with an average of 28.2.
We have never gotten less than 29 MPG in combined city/highway driving, and it is usually right between 30 and 31. A few tanks ago, we got two solid tanks of 33-34 MPG. This is in a 240-hp rear-wheel-drive convertible sportscar, and I don’t drive like a grandma or use hypermiling techniques. I am not impressed with 34 out of a piece-of-crap Aveo. 
As far as I know, the only VW with a TDI Diesel currently available in the US is the Jetta. It has 6% better gas mileage than the Honda Fit, a difference that doesn’t even make up for the (currently) higher cost of diesel fuel.
I also notice that according to fueleconomy.gov, the Jetta actually has a higher carbon footprint than the Fit. I presume that’s because a gallon of diesel contains more carbon than a gallon of petrol?
The Jetta TDI should easily take you over 200,000 miles, and is a more substantial car though.
GM has 18 models for 2009 that get 30+ mpg so in reality there are lots of domestic options out there.
Tax incentives for the Volt will be around $7500
Now $32,500 is still a lot for a car, but if you can use it within a 20 mile commute you’ll never need to hit the gas station.
Diesel probably does, but you can minimize that by using a biodiesel blend of fuel (VW refuses to make the minor changes which would allow you to burn straight biodiesel for some reason).
The Honda will do the same, though insurance and repair costs might be different.
Almost all American production cars can accomplish 0-60 in 10 seconds or less. That is NOT fast, at all, nor is it conducive to a short on-ramp merge onto an expressway where people are doing 70 mph, either, so in that respect, that IS kinda dangerous.
A fast 0-60 time would be generally anything 6 seconds or faster. Most cars (not SUV’s, vans, etc) manage somewhere between 7 and 9 seconds, while also maintaining decent fuel economy.
The S2000 is a nice car, and a blast to drive. I find it hard to believe that the EPA rated it’s MPG so low…they must have really been putting their foot into it!
Normal driving in that Honda should result in about 30mpg, which is about what you have stated.
And Aveos ARE junk.
I’m still convinced that’s faster than necessary. And as you say, I don’t even have the option to buy a slower and more efficient car.
“nor is it conducive to a short on-ramp merge onto an expressway where people are doing 70 mph, either, so in that respect, that IS kinda dangerous.”
Quoting myself…did you just gloss over that part? If you live in America, a certain, reasonable amount of power is generally safer for certain driving conditions.
I understand where you’re coming from…I went from a huge Crown Victoria to a Scion Xa, a TINY car that makes all of 103hp with a 1.3L engine…and gets about 40mpg with a 5-speed. Why don’t you look for a used one of those? It’s made by Toyota, has a reasonable stereo, comes standard with power locks, mirrors, windows, a/c, etc…for about 14k brand new.
Sounds like Boyo Jim and I had the same experience, but mine was with a Ford Festiva. Though the “modified EPA estimates”, certainly don’t jibe with what I experienced. It was my first “new car” in 1988, while I was a freshman in college. Cost me $5000 at the time, and I routinely got 44mpg. I was a religious tracker of gas mileage, and am to this day, as I’ve always believed that a reduction/change in MPG is one of the best indicators of something “not right” with your car. Especially when you tend to do the same drive, day after day, after day… My only variations came during weeks of extreme traffic (rare with the routes I traveled).
The whole car weighed 1800# with a full load of fuel, so the small engine moved it around just fine. I’m sure it wouldn’t pass modern crash tests, but it was nicely stripped down, efficeint, and cost effective means of transport. It lasted me until 186K miles, and I only sold it because 7 years later, I had a job that required lots of driving, in a suit, in the summer… the car had no A/C. :mad: I miss that car to this day.
I’d love to see a return of small, inexpensive cars with few options, that get great gas mileage. I’d also like to see a diesel version of the Subaru Baja (truck/car combo, which was discontinued just before gas prices went up due to lack of sales, though if they had ADVERTISED it, they’d have sold more.) I don’t want to drive a big truck, but I want an open bed for all the “messy stuff” that being a homeowner/hunter involves… (trash, fertilizer, bulky items, dead animals).
Additionally, I’d say that if you NEED a car that accelerates as fast as most North American cars, then you aren’t planning your driving well enough. Proper spacing gives time to accelerate… proper speed at the middle of the onramp insures proper merging speed at the merge point. (YMMV, as I understand not all ramps provide easy merging, but if it’s that busy, you probably don’t need to get to 60mph anyway.)
The Fit’s popularity isn’t sudden. They were waiting-list popular when they first rolled out on American lots 2 years ago. It took me a couple of months and half a dozen dealerships just to find one to look at in person, much less test drive. When my mom was looking at cars last summer, her local Honda dealer still had a waiting list for Fits.
It’s an insanely great little car, though. I’m specially fond of pulling ours up to the hardware store, watching the guys on the loading dock insist that I cannot fit that bale of wire/lumber/piece of equipment into that car, and proving them wrong.
Just a note, availability isn’t a measure of popularity. Honda Fits and Toyota Priuses were hard to get because they never expected to sell many in the first place, so they never brought over that many on the boat. Honda has sold 73,000 Fits in the US so far, with about 45,000 in 2007. To put that into perspective, Ford sold about that many F-series trucks per month in 2007.
When the safety standards changed so much that the cars were made heavier because of them. Saturn used to make a vehicle called the S-Series. Small and efficient with 5 star crash test ratings for that time. They got around 40mpg easy. The safety standards that were to be implemented for the 2003 model year changed to such a degree that the S-Series was replaced with the ION. They couldn’t bring the S-Series cars up to the new safety standards with what was the design at the time. They had to make a whole new car for the segment. The ION can get up to 34mpg, but it has now been replaced with the ASTRA.
Times have changed, but you still have lots of vehicle choices that average above 30mpg. You just have to look for them.
As Tf said, it doesn’t work that way. Getting involved in large scale production requires massive investment- when you produce a few sports cars, they don’t have to meet the same type approval standards (crash testing, emissions, etc., not that emissions are an issue). Anyway, if all you’re making is cheap electric cars, what happens if you roll your product out and it flops? You’re out hundreds of millions, and probably billions. Consider this - Honda, GM and Toyota have all been pouring billions into developing viable electric cars, and none of them have cracked it yet.
Unemployed engineers who don’t know anything about electric drivetrains are not going to be very useful to you. They’re mostly going to be standing around, going “well, if this was an internal combustion engine, we’d do it this way.” Hell, most car companies have to call in third party vendors like Orbital just to help them develop two-stroke gasoline engines.
I don’t think he is, and I’m certainly not. Neato!
Any car that doesn’t do 0-60 in 10 seconds is slow in Europe, too. It just wouldn’t be called underpowered- that’s the way small cars are.
The Astra, FTR, is a rebadged Opel, which I gather is what most or all Saturns will be from now on (and frankly, it’s a very sensible idea).
Yes, but IIRC, Ford F-series trucks (until the price of gas spiked) outsold every single vehicle. Ford’s total sales don’t match those of other car makers, but if you’re going to do a comparison on a model to model basis, putting the Fit against F-series trucks isn’t really a valid comparison, since no other vehicle has a sales rate on par with the F-series.
Mass production deals with the assembly and automation. It does not require a working knowledge of the product, just how to repetitively assemble it rapidly and accurately. It is knowledge of welding equipment,conveyors and assembly.
I wasn’t trying to do a comparison. I was pointing out that limited availability is due to limited supply, not excessive demand. The Honda Fit is not a “popular” vehicle in North America. Many people who wanted one couldn’t get one right away because not many came over on the boat in the first place. As I have already explained, and Honda understands perfectly well, there is very little demand in absolute terms for these kinds of European/Japanese cars. The Saturn Astra that RNATB was talking about, for example, has been a complete sales failure and a costly mistake for GM, surprisingly enough, just like EVERY other popular European car that Detroit has tried to bring over. GM should have known better, as the Japanese car makers generally do, that American consumers say all kinds of bullshit about what they want in a car but will never put their money where their mouth is.
I remember reading a few car magazine reviews of the S2000 that commented on what poor mileage they got.
That’s a bit of a misleading statistic, though, since the F-series isn’t really one model, but several.
You still have to design your product, though.
That’s not true. Ford’s “world cars” - the Focus and Contour/Mystique/Mondeo did just fine. The Cadillac Catera, which was a rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Omega, did pretty well, IIRC. They don’t bring over very many, though.