# Semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver origin **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 21, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376 "2004-09-21T21:25:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kreekurmudgeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@Kreekurmudgeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kreekurmudgeon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/1 "2004-09-21T21:25:39Z")
I remember the adjective phrase was used in a novel that I read quite some years ago, but don’t remember which. Does it ring any bells with anyone? In context, it said words to the effect, “At her wedding to Tom, she was a virgin. A semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver virgin, but a virgin nonetheless.” ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/2 "2004-09-21T21:32:21Z")
Archaically, notes in music are refered to as quavers, with the number of hemis, demis, and semis depending on whether they’re 8th, 16th, or 32nd notes. (IIRC, a quarter note is a “quaver”, an eight is a “semi-quaver”, etc.) So perhaps the implication is that she’s 1/32 of a Virgin? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/3 "2004-09-21T21:42:18Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Archaically, notes in music are refered to as quavers, with the number of hemis, demis, and semis depending on whether they’re 8th, 16th, or 32nd notes. No. IIRC from my music theory study, the original note was the breve, which is now eight of today’s notes. The minim (two notes) came next, then the crotchet - one note. Half a note is a quaver, a quarter is a semiquaver, an eighth is a demisemiquaver, and a sixteenth is a hemidemisemiquaver. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/4 "2004-09-21T21:44:23Z")
For the record, there’s not a standard term in this system for anything shorter than a hemidemisemiquaver (hyphenation not needed). And it’s suggesting she’s 1/128th of a virgin. Kind of. As a metaphor, ieems a bit naff to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/5 "2004-09-21T21:45:51Z")
… or perhaps a virgin for a very brief moment in time? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/6 "2004-09-21T21:52:51Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > No. IIRC from my music theory study, the original note was the breve, which is now eight of today’s notes. The minim (two notes) came next, then the crotchet - one note. Half a note is a quaver, a quarter is a semiquaver, an eighth is a demisemiquaver, and a sixteenth is a hemidemisemiquaver. A whole note is a semiquaver - I believe the fractional system came into development long after the breve had fallen into near-obsolescence. (Footnote - it’s a strange, and as far as I know unexplained phenomena that across the history of European music, note values have gradually reduced, and the longer ones fallen into disuse. Beyond the breve were the lunga and the maxima (ie ‘brief’, ‘long’ and ‘maximum’, with the lunga once being the primary beat. Gradually the breve became the primary pulse, then the semibreve, then the minim (originally minima, ie minimum), crotchet, quaver, and there’s now composers who often write using semiquaver or demisemiquaver primary beats.) ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/7 "2004-09-21T21:54:31Z")
Could it have been from a Tom Robbins novel? It sounds like something he might write… ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/8 "2004-09-21T21:55:25Z")
A quaver is an [eighth note](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaver). A crotchet is a quarter note. A minim is a half note. A whole note is a semibreve, while a breve is a double whole note. Going downwards, a sixteenth note is a semiquaver. A thirty-second note is a demisemiquaver. A sixty-fourth note is a hemidemisemiquaver. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/9 "2004-09-21T21:55:34Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > A whole note is a semiquaver - I believe the fractional system came into development long after the breve had fallen into near-obsolescence. Acckkk…semi_ **breve** _ :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/10 "2004-09-21T22:09:30Z")
Only **Terminus Est** got it 100% correct, in terms of its current usage in England, where it is not archaic but still used extensively by classical musicians. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/11 "2004-09-21T22:15:00Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > … still used extensively by classical musicians. Used _ubiquitously_, and not just in the classical field. We’d no more talk about an eight-note than a sidewalk or a subway train. (But we know what they all mean 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/12 "2004-09-21T22:44:55Z")
Australians also use the terms semibreve, minim, crotchet, quaver, semiquaver etc. And it’s a _bar_, not a _measure_. There’s always confusion in our choir when we have visiting American conductors. ---
**Author:** ![Kreekurmudgeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@Kreekurmudgeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kreekurmudgeon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/13 "2004-09-21T23:23:52Z")
It could well have been a Tom Robbins novel, ggurl. I just don’t remember and was hoping some doper would. Ayn Rand is another possibility that comes to mind, but I wouldn’t bet too much on that. Of one thing I’m certain, though. It wasn’t a novel about musical notes. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/14 "2004-09-21T23:46:10Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Used _ubiquitously_, and not just in the classical field. We’d no more talk about an eight-note than a sidewalk or a subway train. (But we know what they all mean 🙂 ) Guess not - it’s an _eighth_ note, as in an eighth of a whole note. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/15 "2004-09-21T23:49:46Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Guess not - it’s an _eighth_ note, as in an eighth of a whole note. Dammit, I’m destined to make a typo in every reply in this thread. Grrrr. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/16 "2004-09-22T06:28:10Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Dammit, I’m destined to make a typo in every reply in this thread. Grrrr. Don’t you mean “Damn it”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/17 "2004-09-22T06:57:48Z")
> [@Kreekurmudgeon](#): > > Ayn Rand is another possibility that comes to mind, but I wouldn’t bet too much on that. Ayn Rand never used metaphor and only extremely rarely used sarcasm. Had such a line been in, say _Atlas Shrugged_, it would probably play like this: “A virgin?” said Jim, sneeringly. “Maybe a hemidemisemiquaver of a virgin.” Dagny looked at her brother icily. “Is she a virgin, or not?” Jim looked at her in mild surprise. “Well, yes.” Dagny regarded her brother in faint astonishment, as the monstrous notion of making words mean something other than they honestly stated was inconceivable to her. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-demi-hemi-quiver-quaver-origin/265376/18 "2004-09-22T07:01:13Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Ayn Rand never used metaphor and only extremely rarely used sarcasm. Had such a line been in, say _Atlas Shrugged_, it would probably play like this: > > “A virgin?” said Jim, sneeringly. “Maybe a hemidemisemiquaver of a virgin.” > Dagny looked at her brother icily. “Is she a virgin, or not?” > Jim looked at her in mild surprise. “Well, yes.” > Dagny regarded her brother in faint astonishment, as the monstrous notion of making words mean something other than they honestly stated was inconceivable to her. I’ve just read this and burst out loud laughing. It’s priceless. Now I’m trying to explain it to everyone else in the office. 😃😃😃