# Semi-submersible cocaine subs keep getting caught. How much to go fully submersible? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077 "2016-10-30T02:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/1 "2016-10-30T02:13:39Z")
Re the story here I have two questions. How much more expensive to go fully submersible? How far down would you have to travel to be undetectable, or alternatively untouchable by the US Coast Guard? [U.S. Coast Guard seizes drug-running submarine filled with cocaine](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/10/28/US-Coast-Guard-seizes-drug-running-submarine-filled-with-cocaine/5621477651803/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1736664x84899) ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/2 "2016-10-30T02:26:27Z")
Do we know that they keep getting caught in a way that is unacceptable to the cartels? The occasional interception might be an acceptable cost of doing business to them. To go fully submersible while using an ICE would likely require hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, especially if there are people inside. Even then, it might not be effective because it’s quite possible they’re detected by hydrophones. To be more silent, they’d have to use an electric-only engine which would reduce range/speed/payload. Instead of being fully submersible, they could travel at night and keep being semisubmersible but use low-angled, flat, polished metal panels to deflect radar skyward. RAM paint is probably beyond their potential technical skill. If you look at the video at the end of the article, the semi-sub has curved metal surfaces which is a bad for them and good for the DEA/coast guard. You’d think they’d do a little research. Sometimes it’s like you can’t trust drug lords to be thoughtful. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/3 "2016-10-30T02:37:40Z")
Looks like they’ve advanced over the years. The first of these I recalled was towed behind a boat. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/4 "2016-10-30T03:11:10Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re the story here I have two questions. > > How much more expensive to go fully submersible? > > How far down would you have to travel to be undetectable, or alternatively untouchable by the US Coast Guard? > > [U.S. Coast Guard seizes drug-running submarine filled with cocaine](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/10/28/US-Coast-Guard-seizes-drug-running-submarine-filled-with-cocaine/5621477651803/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1736664x84899) You can probably buy a full up de-milled Kilo (no pun) class sub, but to operate it then you need a few someones with dolphins, but I don’t think that the cartel guys have the patience to set that up properly , or its already happening and we simply dont know about it. Declan ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/5 "2016-10-30T19:36:23Z")
The question makes me wonder: How do diesel-electric submarines supply their ICE engines with sufficient oxygen? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/6 "2016-10-30T19:46:36Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > The question makes me wonder: How do diesel-electric submarines supply their ICE engines with sufficient oxygen? Usually, by running on the surface. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/7 "2016-10-30T19:48:16Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > The question makes me wonder: How do diesel-electric submarines supply their ICE engines with sufficient oxygen? Typically they run on batteries only while underwater, though they might have a snorkel. Brian ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/8 "2016-10-30T19:49:26Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Usually, by running on the surface. > [@N9IWP](#): > > Typically they run on batteries only while underwater, though they might have a snorkel. > > Brian So, do I understand correctly that the amount of time underwater is quite limited, on the order or hours or at most days at a time? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/9 "2016-10-30T21:47:18Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > So, do I understand correctly that the amount of time underwater is quite limited, on the order or hours or at most days at a time? Depends on the quality of the batteries and how much maneuvering the sub would do. But a couple of days going A to B sounds about right. Diesel Electrics would normally transit on the surface, and then go sub surface for combat. If your going to ambush a ship, a couple of hours would probably suffice, as the sub would maneuver for a torpedo solution, submerge and then fire a spread. If any escorts were around, then it would stay submerged longer, depending on how good the detection suite was in the destroyers. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/10 "2016-10-30T23:29:14Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Re the story here I have two questions. > > How much more expensive to go fully submersible? > > How far down would you have to travel to be undetectable, or alternatively untouchable by the US Coast Guard? > > [U.S. Coast Guard seizes drug-running submarine filled with cocaine](http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/10/28/US-Coast-Guard-seizes-drug-running-submarine-filled-with-cocaine/5621477651803/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=im&utm_tracker=1736664x84899) How “semi” submersible are they; or to put that another way, how much is still on the surface when it’s at maximum depth? I would think that running truly submerged would be a massive step up from what they currently do, especially if there are people on board. You’d need battery power and some means of life support. A lot would depend on how far they had to travel while submerged; would they have to make the whole trip through the patrol area under water, or could they just dip under for 30 minutes or so when the Coast Guard got close? Seems like a good option would be to operate with a snorkel, but to make it as small as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/11 "2016-10-30T23:45:54Z")
How do we know they aren’t doing it already? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/12 "2016-10-31T00:32:14Z")
Seems like the more likely path is to have drone submarines, or drone airplanes for that matter. Both could be massively more stealthy than ones with humans onboard. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/13 "2016-10-31T00:40:38Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Seems like the more likely path is to have drone submarines, or drone airplanes for that matter. Both could be massively more stealthy than ones with humans onboard. I think a stealth drone aircraft would still be beyond a drug cartel’s technical capability. A drone submarine is an interesting idea, but I’m not sure how it would navigate; how deep can a receiver be and still pick up a GPS signal? A battery-powered sub with just an antenna poking up above the water would be tough to pick up on radar, but there’s still sonar and heat to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/14 "2016-10-31T01:05:28Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I think a stealth drone aircraft would still be beyond a drug cartel’s technical capability. A drone submarine is an interesting idea, but I’m not sure how it would navigate; how deep can a receiver be and still pick up a GPS signal? A battery-powered sub with just an antenna poking up above the water would be tough to pick up on radar, but there’s still sonar and heat to worry about. The fact that it is a drone makes it stealthy. Radar does not reflect well off of plastic and the fact that the craft are so small makes it that much harder to detect. I used to fly around a small aircraft made of composite materials and unless you turned on the transponder it was about as visible as a sparrow to radar. It was said to be harder to see than a stealth bomber. and it had to be big enough for two people. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/15 "2016-10-31T01:17:30Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > The fact that it is a drone makes it stealthy. Radar does not reflect well off of plastic and the fact that the craft are so small makes it that much harder to detect. I used to fly around a small aircraft made of composite materials and unless you turned on the transponder it was about as visible as a sparrow to radar. It was said to be harder to see than a stealth bomber. and it had to be big enough for two people. What was the powerplant? Even if radar passes through the composite won’t it reflect off the engine block, propeller hub, etc.? And it would have to be big enough to carry a decent payload of cocaine. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/16 "2016-10-31T01:45:21Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What was the powerplant? Even if radar passes through the composite won’t it reflect off the engine block, propeller hub, etc.? And it would have to be big enough to carry a decent payload of cocaine. This is the [plane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA20) I flew. The DA20-A1 Katana version. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/17 "2016-10-31T01:57:44Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > I used to fly around a small aircraft made of composite materials and unless you turned on the transponder it was about as visible as a sparrow to radar. It was said to be harder to see than a stealth bomber. and it had to be big enough for two people. Who said it was as visible as a sparrow to radar? Was it someone who had tried to ping it on radar? The RCS of a plane is a function of size but much more of shape and materials. In this case, as Robot Arm says, the engine would include curved metal parts which would have all the stealth of a Christmas tree. > [@Declan](#): > > Depends on the quality of the batteries and how much maneuvering the sub would do. But a couple of days going A to B sounds about right. > > Diesel Electrics would normally transit on the surface, and then go sub surface for combat. If your going to ambush a ship, a couple of hours would probably suffice, as the sub would maneuver for a torpedo solution, submerge and then fire a spread. > > If any escorts were around, then it would stay submerged longer, depending on how good the detection suite was in the destroyers. Moving would empty the batteries quite quickly then? When immobile, I take it that a sub doesn’t require much electrical power? Is it true that a diesel electric sub is stealthier than a nuclear sub when using only its electrical power? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/18 "2016-10-31T02:06:04Z")
I wonder how often they come through. I would love to hunt them down with some kind of towed sonar. That’s my kind of fishing. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/19 "2016-10-31T05:41:00Z")
Ummm… While these folks are not exactly sympathetic defendants, How is it that the US Coast Guard can seize craft in international and/or foreign waters? By the 3 stories I’ve read on this bust, all agree that the “sub” was not even TRYING to enter US waters. I’m guessing this is “might makes right” - nobody is going to object to these crooks getting caught. If we replace “cocaine laden semi-submersible” with “fishing trawler”, do the legalities change? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077/20 "2016-10-31T06:04:55Z")
The Submarine cargo typically ends up in Mexico and then overland to the US, so yes the Coast Guard has jurisdiction. As for true submarines,[yes they do exis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine#True_submarines)t. Here is one found [in Colombia a few years back](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-12461089). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/semi-submersible-cocaine-subs-keep-getting-caught-how-much-to-go-fully-submersible/770077.md?page=2)