# Sen. Grassley to AIG Execs: Resign or Kill Yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746 "2009-03-17T13:59:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/21 "2009-03-17T18:59:32Z")
In normal times I would find this quote disgusting and repulsive, but right now I’m having trouble getting much of a rise out of it. For the past six months, the government’s economic policy has been to fork enormous amounts of money over to America’s largest corporations. The cost must eventually be sent to the taxpayers, either as higher taxes or as inflation. The executives have made clear that they intend to grab as much money as possible for themselves, whether as raises, bonuses, or perks. Every time this happens, our politicians in Washington respond by giving them a severe verbal scolding and then handing over an even larger wad of cash. While I don’t like seeing anyone die, I’d have a very hard time mourning the suits at AIG or Citibank or any of those others dens of thieves. Better than encouraging suicide, however, would be passing [Garry Peters’ bill](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/3/17/709576/-AIG-idiocy-sparks-a-race-to-the-hopper!) that would tax these bonuses at a rate of 100%. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/22 "2009-03-17T19:26:07Z")
I guess this is about as close as we’re going to come to a Kanye West moment with this thing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/23 "2009-03-17T19:36:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I am horrified and appalled that there seems to be a resigned assumption operating that “malefactors of great wealth” are basically immune from any legal retribution for their actions. Are we really reduced to trying to figure out ways to ostracize and humiliate these people socially because we can’t punish them in any other way? Pretty much. America is built for the benefit of the rich; the rest of us are just their support structure. An aristocracy in all but name. I doubt that shaming them will work either, since I doubt they feel any. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/24 "2009-03-17T19:37:04Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > You could make the same claim about many members of US Congress. I’m not all that familiar with ol’ Chuck to comment on if his record should exempt him for the “resign or die” idea, but many congresspeople are the last group of folks to be commenting on corruption, incompetence and greed. > > A remarkably dumb thing for a Senator to say. My thoughts exactly. The qualifications for a bank exec would be along the lines of an Accounting degree and an MBA. Qualifications for a member of Congress, none. Apparently, they’re not even required to read legislation that spends trillions of dollars. The AIG bonuses were covered by legislation put in the stimulus package by Senator Dodd (who already got his cut). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/25 "2009-03-17T19:52:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The AIG bonuses were covered by legislation put in the stimulus package by Senator Dodd (who already got his cut). Cite? The contract for the bonuses was made before the meltdown and the bailout, and thus before any bills. In my understanding, only bankruptcy judges, not acts of Congress, can invalidate contracts. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/26 "2009-03-17T20:02:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Cite? The contract for the bonuses was made before the meltdown and the bailout, and thus before any bills. In my understanding, only bankruptcy judges, not acts of Congress, can invalidate contracts. [While](http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/finance/dodd-cracks-aig---time/) \*\*the Senate was constructing the $787 billion stimulus last month, Dodd added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an “exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009” – which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are now seeking to tax. The amendment made it into the final version of the bill, and is law.\*\* I’m not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the legislation. It allows the company to accept the bailout. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/27 "2009-03-17T20:04:30Z")
Actually, I don’t see why, in principle, an act of Congress couldn’t invalidate a contract. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/28 "2009-03-17T20:05:22Z")
Chris Dodd has felt the wrath of populism and done an [about-face](http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/finance/dodd-cracks-aig---time/) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/29 "2009-03-17T20:08:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Pretty much. America is built for the benefit of the rich; the rest of us are just their support structure. An aristocracy in all but name. > > I doubt that shaming them will work either, since I doubt they feel any. Yes, that’s why poor people flock to the United States, to suffer the horrors of cell phones, microwave ovens, color TV’s and cable.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/30 "2009-03-17T20:10:03Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Negligent or even accidental actions causing the physical inury or death of another person are or can be considered as crimes and prosecuted. You might have a point in a philosophical approach, but we do not have either case law or legislation of which I am aware that supports it in this situation. A person who ignores the screeching from their brakes for 5,000 miles or never has a mechanic check their tie rods has committed an act of omission that results in physical failure. When several hundred accountants and managers miss various signs of imminent collapse–signs that are believed by some and denied by others–it is a bit more difficult to determine. Now, if I were a board member for AIG, I would be looking to ensure that no exec who accepted a bonus would continue to be employed the next day. If the board will not act, then as a shareholder I would be proposing a complete replacement of the board. I’m still not sure that I would want the government stepping in to create punishments for “crimes” that were both _ad hoc_ and _post facto_. (Similarly, any Congresscritters who helped draft the bailout without specifying that no bonuses would be issued should probably be removed at the next election. However, I am still not eager to see retroactive crimes.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/31 "2009-03-17T20:12:37Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Actually, I don’t see why, in principle, an act of Congress couldn’t invalidate a contract. If you’re in a 3rd world country with a dictator, yes. Contractual responsibility is a mainstay of any stable democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/32 "2009-03-17T20:24:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, that’s why poor people flock to the United States, to suffer the horrors of cell phones, microwave ovens, color TV’s and cable.:rolleyes: And being crippled young by hard field labor and pesticide exposure. Or being burned alive in factories because they have the exits chained shut. The fact that poor, desperate people come here to feed themselves and their familes doesn’t make America a wonderful place; it just means that there are places even worse. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/33 "2009-03-17T20:29:17Z")
They might be well advised to commit seppuku to avoid something even worse. From [James Howard Kunstler’s](http://www.kunstler.com/) “Clusterfuck Nation Chronicle,” 3/9/09: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, if the buzz on the blogosphere is a measure of anything – and I think it is – then a new consensus is forming out there about where to start doing things differently. Unfortunately after less than two months in office, President Obama finds himself awkwardly behind-the-curve on this. It begins with the understanding that a general bank rescue is hopeless and, going a step further, that the people who caused the train wreck of “innovative” securities have to be prosecuted. The public’s collective voice on this is muted but growing. It has been muted by the general air of blackmail that the banks have used to enthrall policy and opinion – the “too big to fail” idea – in effect holding the nation’s future for ransom. > > ``` > Last week, New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo hauled Bank of America chief Ken Lewis into his office to explain who, exactly, received an aggregate several billion dollars in bonuses late in 2008 after the US Treasury forked over billions of dollars in TARP money to his bank. That was a good start. Mr. Lewis, being lawyered-up to the max, had the temerity to reply that answering the question would compromise his ability to keep talented people in his employ. For that impertinence alone, Mr. Lewis ought to be dragged over fifteen miles of broken chardonnay bottles behind a GMC Yukon -- but that is not how we do things in American jurisprudence. To be more realistic, a simple indictment would be in order, and then Mr. Lewis can answer this question, and a few others, in the comfort of an air-conditioned courtroom. Ultimately, that might lead to Mr. Lewis becoming the wife of a bodybuilder in one of New York State's houses of correction -- a just outcome that would go far in rejiggering the nation's expectations about how people in authority ought to behave. And such an outcome might lead to the conviction of many other brides-to-be from the Wall Street debutante pool. > > Now it has come to light, just last week in the wake of AIG's latest bail-out, that previous AIG bail-out money to the tune of $50 billion was distributed to a set of banks including Goldman Sachs (former employer of then Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and then New York Federal Reserve Governor Tim Geithner), plus Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Mr. Lewis's Bank of America, and a long list of European banks with operations in the USA. Since the transactions took place in New York State, the investigation of these irregularities alone could solve the unemployment problem here if NY Attorney General Cuomo were given a free hand in hiring staff to depose everyone involved -- including the hiring of caterers to bring in coffee and meals for round-the-clock proceedings. > > All of this raises another awkward question: where is United States Attorney General Eric Holder in this situation? Surely the federal statutes offer some grounds for inquiring about the misuse of Treasury funds -- and many other issues arising from Wall Street's stupendous orgy of misbehavior. What I'm hearing out in the blogosphere is a growing clamor to call people to account before we are really able to move on to the massive task-list that awaits us in rebuilding our economy. > > The bigger question for now is whether any of these authorities will act effectively before the public simply goes apeshit and starts burning down Greenwich, Connecticut. The dangerous shift in public mood is liable to occur with shocking swiftness, in the manner of "phase change," where one moment you see a bewildered bunch of flabby clown-citizens vacuously enraptured by "American Idol," and the next moment they are transformed into a vicious mob hoisting flaming brands to the window treatments of a hedge funder's McMansion. The moment of opportunity for avoiding that outcome is looking sickeningly slim right now. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/34 "2009-03-17T20:30:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And being crippled young by hard field labor and pesticide exposure. Or being burned alive in factories because they have the exits chained shut. > > The fact that poor, desperate people come here to feed themselves and their familes doesn’t make America a wonderful place; it just means that there are places even worse. For someone who thinks so little of his own country I’m surprised you’re still here. I don’t see any border exits stopping you from leaving. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/35 "2009-03-17T20:30:56Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Actually, I don’t see why, in principle, an act of Congress couldn’t invalidate a contract. [It’s unconstitutional.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_clause) (Not that a clever enough lawyer might not find a way around that.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/36 "2009-03-17T20:52:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > For someone who thinks so little of his own country I’m surprised you’re still here. I don’t see any border exits stopping you from leaving. Ah, the old “America love it or leave it” bit. Perhaps you’ll call me a “pinko” next. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/37 "2009-03-17T20:53:12Z")
They don’t need literally to kill themselves. All they have to do is a public mea culpa and then giving up bonuses and salaries for this year and perhaps the next 3. To continue looting the system shows what arrogant thieves they are. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/38 "2009-03-17T21:24:10Z")
Given some of the rather gruesome suggestions I’ve heard for dealing with these guys in real life, Mr. Grassley’s comments are rather tame in comparison. Thus, I can’t get on board with the outrage expressed by some here. The misconduct - legal or not - these Wall Street bigwigs have engaged in has had real world repercussions around the entire planet. They should be stripped of wealth to the point they are living in leaky cardboard boxes underneath a bridge for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/39 "2009-03-17T21:30:43Z")
Hmmm…take multi-million dollar bonus or kill myself. I think I’ll go with the bonus. As Stephen Colbert said, “that money was to be used in ways we never see to prop up businesses we don’t understand.” ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746/40 "2009-03-17T21:40:38Z")
I don’t think Sen. Grassley was literally suggesting that the AIG execs kill themselves. He was suggesting that they should feel a level of shame that would cause say, a Japanese exec in a similar situation to want to commit seppuku. The problem is, our execs seem to feel a veritably sociopathic lack of shame for their mistakes, and seem to only care about getting theirs, regardless of who gets screwed and what the long-term consequences are. So yes, I wish they felt so debilitatingly shamed that they felt they must abnegate themselves, or you know, maybe refuse their ill-gotten bonuses at the very least. Not gonna happen, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-grassley-to-aig-execs-resign-or-kill-yourselves/489746.md?page=3)