# \[Sen. Joe Lieberman\] What is wrong with people in Connecticut? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039 "2005-12-10T14:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/61 "2005-12-13T01:48:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No, that was not an official act of the government. Notice the use of “leaders” in that story, not “legislators”. Dammit. I guess I was seeing what I wanted to see. Shit. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/62 "2005-12-13T02:37:09Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Which party is that? Who was the last person to be kicked out because of a disagreement over one issue? Perhaps “kicked out” is a wee bit harsh. Colin Powell wasn’t asked to leave the party, but he certainly was told not to let the door hit him on the butt on the way out of the cabinet because of his objections to the Iraq war. Harriett Miers was certainly unqualified for the Supreme Court, but what torpedoed her nomination was lack of evidence of a commitment against abortion. The right feared that she wasn’t “right enough”. Look at Paul O’Neill- kicked out of Treasury because he opposed Bush’s tax cuts. Sure, they’ll pay lip service to having an open tent, but to actually be in a position of power you had better toe that party line without exception. [Common Dreams, admittedly not an impartial cite,](http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1014-24.htm) has a pretty nice summary of those asked to leave the administration. [This writer sums up what I failed so miserably to express.](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=1712) > [@](#): > > The principle that people of good faith might disagree on issues such as abortion, family planning and gay and lesbian rights lost by a 4-1 margin when members of the Republican party’s platform committee debated the notion this week. According to most media, that was the “news” from the Grand Old Party’s platform deliberations – just as the failure of moderate Republicans to move the party toward the center on social issues has been the “news” of every Republican National Convention since 1976… > > Like everything else about the 2004 convention of this once-great party, the platform carries a great big Bush-Cheney imprint and no evidence whatsoever that grassroots Republicans had any say at all in the process of shaping their party’s agenda. There aren’t any debates on matters of substance in today’s Republican Party. The neocons have hijacked the train. This insistence on lock-step marching is in my opinion what makes Bush much more dangerous than Nixon could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/63 "2005-12-13T03:42:58Z")
Regarding the **Helms Years** : Understand that NC is split in a partisan fashion between urban and rural. The urban areas, including the college towns, tend towards the left: see The Triangle, Durham(Duke), Chapel Hill/Carrbor(UNCCH), Raleigh(NCSU) and the like. Asheville and Charlotte are at most centrist. Helms rode the elections on his massive rural support. ---
**Author:** ![David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_God_of_Frogs)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/64 "2005-12-13T03:51:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Mr. Lieberman is, in fact, the exact opposite of many of my positions. He represents to me the worst of both worlds, the social restrictions of the conservative, and the financial liberalism of the democrats. I agree. He’s great as a Republican lap dog, but I don’t see him really leading the Democratic party anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/65 "2005-12-13T04:00:55Z")
The Dems are not going to get anywhere by being “Republican Lite”. They have to find their own identity and stick to it. Waiting for the Republicans to say something and then yelling “me too” won’t cut it. Either they are an alternative to the Republican party, or they serve no purpose. They need a solid platform and a real message. They also need to get more aggressive and less reactive. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/66 "2005-12-13T04:51:43Z")
I think the Democrats have a serious structural problem right now. And that is, they are heavily split between the base and the electable mainstream. This is why the Democrats don’t have a well-defined platform or their version of a ‘Contract with America’. Because if they write one that pleases the Democrats on this board, they’ll lose the middle of the country to the Republicans. If they draft one that’s moderate and appealing to the center, it’ll lose them the support of the base. And since most of the Democrats’ funding these days is coming from the grassroots, that’s deadly. So they muddle along, sniping from the sidelines, but refusing to be pinned down on any position. And look what happened when someone finally broke ranks on Iraq. John Murtha offered up an unequivocal position, and the party split in half, with some running from it and others agreeing. The Republicsns are much more disciplined. They generally stay on message. ‘Mavericks’ like McCain only step out a little, and there are only a few of them. On the big issues, they pretty much speak in unison. This is going to be a tough nut to crack for the Democrats. The next presidential election will be very interesting, because I think those divisions will become very visible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/67 "2005-12-13T05:25:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Perhaps “kicked out” is a wee bit harsh. Colin Powell wasn’t asked to leave the party, but he certainly was told not to let the door hit him on the butt on the way out of the cabinet because of his objections to the Iraq war. More than a wee bit, but at least you admit you’re now moving the goal post. So what? He was let go from the Cabinet, not from the party. Clinton went thru many more cabinet members than Bush did. > [@](#): > > Harriett Miers was certainly unqualified for the Supreme Court, but what torpedoed her nomination was lack of evidence of a commitment against abortion. The right feared that she wasn’t “right enough”. No. She was rejected by the right because there were so many more qualified candidates. Besides, imagine if a Democrat nominated a justice who was not unequivacably pro-choice. Do you think the left would be OK with that? If the Republicans can put up with Lynne Chaffe, I don’t see how you can say they don’t tolerate dissent. > [@](#): > > Look at Paul O’Neill- kicked out of Treasury because he opposed Bush’s tax cuts. Sure, they’ll pay lip service to having an open tent, but to actually be in a position of power you had better toe that party line without exception. [Common Dreams, admittedly not an impartial cite,](http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1014-24.htm) has a pretty nice summary of those asked to leave the administration. Leaving the administration ≠ leaving the party. > [@](#): > > There aren’t any debates on matters of substance in today’s Republican Party. The neocons have hijacked the train. This insistence on lock-step marching is in my opinion what makes Bush much more dangerous than Nixon could ever be. Meh. There is just as much debate on matters of substance in the Republican party as there is in the Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/68 "2005-12-13T05:50:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No. She was rejected by the right because there were so many more qualified candidates. Depends on what segment of the right he has in mind. The religious right was, despite some initial assurances, not convinced of her credentials. Others, regardless of political persuasion, felt she was unqualified. > [@](#): > > Besides, imagine if a Democrat nominated a justice who was not unequivacably pro-choice. Do you think the left would be OK with that? Much of the left wouldn’t. On the other hand, the leader of the Senate Democrats is not pro-choice at all. The man who might be his nearest counterpart (pro-choice Arlen Specter on the right) is the target of “RINO” campaigns. I don’t see anyone doing that to Reid. I agree with what you’re saying in principal, but there may be some exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/69 "2005-12-13T06:32:13Z")
Back to the OP, the following scenario is IMHO the best that can happen: 1- Rumsfeld is replaced by Lieberman in early 2006. 2- The current Connecticut Governor chooses a Republican for the vacated senate seat. 3- Richard Blumenthal moves in and takes the senate seat from the 9-months incumbent Republican in November 2006. 4- Bush and his cabinet are replaced in January 2009. 5- Lieberman goes out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/70 "2005-12-13T06:39:57Z")
And why would Bush, “Mr. Loyalty,” appoint one of the men who ran against him in 2000 to run the Defense Department? ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/71 "2005-12-14T07:50:27Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > It’s a mildly anti-Semitic joke. No it is not, because of the following: 1- “Free Ham” is a Radio Group who happens to put Joseph Lieberman on the spot by the 2nd cite given in post # 40 above. The cite clearly indicates that the popular free media group “Ham” put the senator on the spotlight by challenging him on his media censorship dilemma. 2- Even if we take \*\*Captain Amazing \*\* interpretation as a “mildly anti-Semitic joke”, then it looks likes “Free Ham” could mean that Lieberman is a Democrat who does not like Republicans (Ham), and yet, sees no problem (Free) to join the Neocon war-mongers. ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/72 "2005-12-14T08:27:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And why would Bush, “Mr. Loyalty,” appoint one of the men who ran against him in 2000 to run the Defense Department? For the same reason that the Democrat Bill Clinton chose the Republican Bill Cohen as his Secretary of Defense, ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/73 "2005-12-14T10:41:43Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > Regarding the **Helms Years** : > > Understand that NC is split in a partisan fashion between urban and rural. The urban areas, including the college towns, tend towards the left: see The Triangle, Durham(Duke), Chapel Hill/Carrbor(UNCCH), Raleigh(NCSU) and the like. Asheville and Charlotte are at most centrist. > > Helms rode the elections on his massive rural support. I hear you **cerberus**. From now on, I’ll try to post more on MPSIMS, IMHO, and Cafe Society, rather than GD. And the question is what have the residents of The Triangle, Durham(Duke), Chapel Hill/Carrbor(UNCCH), Raleigh(NCSU) and the like have done to Wake Up the rural majority in North Carolina who keeps on voting for Helms-alikes? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039/74 "2005-12-14T13:35:49Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > No it is not, because of the following: > > 1- “Free Ham” is a Radio Group who happens to put Joseph Lieberman on the spot by the 2nd cite given in post # 40 above. The cite clearly indicates that the popular free media group “Ham” put the senator on the spotlight by challenging him on his media censorship dilemma. > > 2- Even if we take \*\*Captain Amazing \*\* interpretation as a “mildly anti-Semitic joke”, then it looks likes “Free Ham” could mean that Lieberman is a Democrat who does not like Republicans (Ham), and yet, sees no problem (Free) to join the Neocon war-mongers. This appears to be a lie. I just reread your second cite, searched for “free” in it (the word doesn’t appear), and searched for the word “ham” in it (it appears only in the context of referring to Don Imus as a media ham). Googling “free ham” and “Lieberman” returns a few cites discussing neonazis. Really, dude, you haven’t got any moral authority whatsoever to lecture North Carolinians. I mean, maybe you could go over to Black Mountain and its rightwing ubercranky cryptoracist [Southern Legal Resource Center](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=26). Of course, Kirk Lyons might bust your ass for being more bigoted than even he allows. It’d be interesting. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-joe-lieberman-what-is-wrong-with-people-in-connecticut/335039.md?page=3)