# Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) lies and admits it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106 "2011-04-12T16:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/201 "2011-04-19T21:10:07Z")
> **[Who We Are | Planned Parenthood](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are)** > > Planned Parenthood is a trusted health care provider, an informed educator, a passionate advocate, and a global partner helping organizations worldwide. Here is what PPH services are. They include PAP smears and breast examinations. Three percent is abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/202 "2011-04-19T22:20:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Sen. John Cornyn > Well, I’m not so sure. Here I am in the middle of the debate and I’m not so sure. I’ve been told that 98 percent of the services they offer to pregnant women are abortion-related services. I’m not sure, but I think we ought to find out. Has any one asked Cornyn who told him that? Have we reached the upper limit of political bullshit and lies yet? Or is the next Republican politician going to up the stakes even more, and try to say that 125% of the services Planned Parenthood offers are abortion related? Sort of like how athletes often give 110% during the playoffs? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/203 "2011-04-20T00:59:36Z")
Huh. You know, that _“98 percent of the services they **offer** to pregnant women are abortion-related services”_ claim doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. Maybe 98% of services **provided** to pregnant women, but _ **OFFERED** _? What, does a pregnant woman showing up for a prenatal care visit run the risk of being told that the clinic has already used up their two percent quota of non-abortion-related services, and all they can offer her is an abortion? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/204 "2011-04-20T01:40:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Has any one asked Cornyn who told him that? Preferably after setting ground rules that make it clear that a voice in your head does not count as a “source”. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/205 "2011-04-23T00:50:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s not really 3%. I’ve pointed this out earlier. > > The difference is in what message it’s intended to convey and how it’s likely to be taken. > > If the underlying point is essentially the same regardless of the accuracy of the statement, then you have grounds for making a hyperbolic statement. If the underlying point depends on the accuracy, then you can’t. > > In this case, Kyl was making the point that PP spends a lot of their money on abortions, and that money is fungible. That’s a valid point. > > That said, I think it crossed the line, because I personally would assume he meant 90% or at least close to it. But I can see someone seeing things differently, so it’s very possible that he did mean it as a hyperbolic statement. But he said ‘90% of what Planned Parenthood **does**.’ Not ‘90% of the outgoings of Planned Parenthood.’ You’re right that the spending on abortion is probably more than 3%, but that’s not what he was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/206 "2011-04-23T02:39:29Z")
He had his remarks about PPH expunged from the senatorial record. That means he did not say it. The story is over. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/207 "2011-04-23T12:00:02Z")
And the memory banks of the Christianly Moral have been miraculously wiped of the inference. Praise Jesus! ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/208 "2011-04-23T18:45:58Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > He had his remarks about PPH expunged from the senatorial record. That means he did not say it. The story is over. This is no longer a matter of abortion or even the federal budget; it’s a sign that we have people in very high offices who think they can lie, then tell people that they lied, and that a large part of the population doesn’t seem to mind. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/209 "2011-04-23T20:25:07Z")
> [@groo](#): > > This is no longer a matter of abortion or even the federal budget; it’s a sign that we have people in very high offices who think they can lie, then tell people that they lied, and that a large part of the population doesn’t seem to mind. Fortunately, a large part of the population (of which you don’t seem to be a member) understands that while all lies are untruths, not all untruths are lies. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/210 "2011-04-23T20:57:03Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fortunately, a large part of the population (of which you don’t seem to be a member) understands that while all lies are untruths, not all untruths are lies. But sadly, a much smaller portion can tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/211 "2011-04-23T21:34:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But sadly, a much smaller portion can tell the difference. On this site, yes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/212 "2011-04-23T21:48:24Z")
There are others, then, where such intelligence abounds? Where deep thinkers such as yourself are accorded respect and admiration? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/213 "2011-04-23T22:24:26Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Did you know that 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot? [Homer Simpson] Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that. [/Homer Simpson] ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/214 "2011-04-25T02:19:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Fortunately, a large part of the population (of which you don’t seem to be a member) understands that while all lies are untruths, not all untruths are lies. This is both true and relevant. It seems unlikely to me that Kyl was outright lying. However, it also seems unlikely to me that Kyl intended to tell the truth (in other words, when his office says it wasn’t intended to be a factual statement, I believe them). What’s likeliest is that he has such a cavalier disregard for facts that it never occurred to him that accuracy might be important, so he never stopped to wonder whether his statement might be accurate or not. This disregard for the truth meant that he couldn’t lie, but it doesn’t speak well for him. On the contrary, it suggests that nothing he says should be taken at face value. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/215 "2011-04-26T15:22:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But who will then teach you? I’m not surprised that you don’t even know WHAT I was arguing in that post to you. So, let the instruction continue. First, let’s recap. Here’s your what I said earlier and your response: Magellan, you’re an idiot with no credibility, the only person who will defend you is FinnAgain and thats only when you bash on Muslims. > [@](#): > > The point is that if, in fact, Kyle was using hyperbole, he would have, _by definition_, known that the number was lower. So you offering up the observation that “he should have know the number was lower”, in no way negates the claim that he was using hyperbole (whether he was or not). THAT was the point of my response. Its a stupid point. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/216 "2011-04-26T15:26:43Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Now, I’m imagining it as a cadence-call: > > I don’t know, but I been told… > Cornyn stole Fort Knox’s gold! > The truth of this is still in doubt… > But we damn sure should find out! I don’t know, but I’ve been told… Barack HUSSEIN Obama is a secret muslim The truth is still in doubt… But we damn sure should find out! Its an old habit of theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/217 "2011-04-26T15:30:19Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > But he said ‘90% of what Planned Parenthood **does**.’ Not ‘90% of the outgoings of Planned Parenthood.’ You’re right that the spending on abortion is probably more than 3%, but that’s not what he was talking about. Yeah but if he had said that 15% of what planned parenthood does is abortions, I think it would be easy to defend taht statement based on the amount of income they derive from abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/218 "2011-04-26T15:50:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > On this site, yes. - \*Not intended to be a factual statement. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/219 "2011-04-26T21:27:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Magellan, you’re an idiot with no credibility, the only person who will defend you is FinnAgain and thats only when you bash on Muslims. Ahh, more lies, dishonesty and stupidity from the dishonorable King Douchbag. Well done! > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its a stupid point. No, it was an _obvious_ point. Or should have been, as it goes to the very definition of the accusation you hurl, you melon head. One that sunk yet another of the stupid rockets that shoot out of your ass and up your spinal cord and exit via your half-formed brain. Hope that helps clear things up for you. No, don’t mention it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/220 "2011-04-26T21:28:59Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > - > > \*Not intended to be a factual statement. Nice. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106.md?page=12)