# Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) lies and admits it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106 "2011-04-12T16:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/21 "2011-04-12T19:59:24Z")
Was that intended seriously? A hyperbole is an example of a statement that is not intended to be a factual statement. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/22 "2011-04-12T20:01:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > FWIW, IMO Kyl is not a liar, and he did mean it as a hyperbolic statement. He probably assumed the number was somewhere up there and said well over 90% as a hyperbole. He shouldn’t have done it. But that doesn’t mean he’s a liar. You know what they say about people that assume? 90% of them should have been aborted. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/23 "2011-04-12T20:03:16Z")
Hyperbole is a figure of speech, such as “I could sleep for a week”, or “This backpack weighs a ton” Hyperbole is not a Senator changing a 3% figure to 90%, and saying it as if it were a matter of accurate reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/24 "2011-04-12T20:09:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Was that intended seriously? > > A hyperbole is an example of a statement that is not intended to be a factual statement. So there is no difference between a lie and a hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/25 "2011-04-12T20:12:38Z")
Step 1: Deny that there is a hole. Step 2: Deny that there is a hole while you are standing in it and shouting up at people. Step 3: Deny that there is a hole while you are standing in it, shouting up at people, and picking up clods of dirt and flinging it skyward at others. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/26 "2011-04-12T20:13:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > When Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) recently said that “abortions make up well over 90% of what Planned Parenthood does”, many took issue with this statement, since the figure is actually closer to 3%. And federal money is not used for that portion of their work at any rate. This issue seemed to be important - after all, it nearly caused a shutdown of the government. > > But… it’s OK, since Sen Kyl has a simple and straightforward explanation for his figure of 90%. > > He lied. > > Or rather, “his remark was not intended to be a factual statement” according to [Kyl’s office.](http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/08/kyl-walks-back-claim-about-planned-parenthoo/) > > Are the Republican leaders so cocky now that they will admit that they are simply making shit up in order to make a point? Is this just accepted as “business as usual”? Do any rank and file Republicans have any problem with this or is it OK? > > Of course, the 90% figure is now out there, and will be repeated and repeated ad nauseum by the usual gang of idiots who are impervious to the truth. Is it possible that this was Sen Kyl’s actual intent? > > (Note: Finding examples of “the other guys doing it” will not be considered an actual reply. Start your own thread.) Seems kind of like your nitpicking unnecessarily. 90% vs 3% seems like a large difference, but the point he was making was true, Plant Parenthood provides abortions. And you’re further nitpicking on what “abortion” means. Sort of like how 125million and 47million are pretty much the same thing… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/27 "2011-04-12T20:16:33Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Sort of like how 125million and 47million are pretty much the same thing… I never said they were the same thing in that other thread you’re referring to. You could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/28 "2011-04-12T20:20:29Z")
If Kyl said a lot, some or a substantial part of PPHs budget was used in abortion. it would have been wrong but could not have been nailed down. He stood in front of the Senate and said 90 percent. That is an exact amount that can be substantiated or not. He was wrong . But how does one defend his words by saying they should not be taken as a statement of fact? Should all of his statements now be seen as possibly not intended as factual ? He was not only wrong, but not even close. Less than 3 percent is involved in abortion. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/29 "2011-04-12T20:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Seems kind of like your nitpicking unnecessarily. 90% vs 3% seems like a large difference, but the point he was making was true, Plant Parenthood provides abortions. We need a dictionary here, so people can understand what “hyperbole” and “nitpicking” mean. “Nitpicking” means > [@](#): > > Minute, trivial, unnecessary, and unjustified criticism or faultfinding. which doesn’t quite fit someone saying that almost everything an organization does is provide abortions, when only 3% of their effort goes to that. Yes, 90% _does_ seem like a lot more than 3%. Because it is. His point was clearly that a major portion of PP’s effort was directed toward abortions, not merely that they did some providing of effort. That’s a fairly substantial difference, and your effort to characterize it otherwise isn’t at all convincing. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/30 "2011-04-12T20:20:59Z")
> [@Cort](#): > > I have a quick question, does anyone have a cite which gives a breakdown on exactly what Planned Parenthood does spend their money on? Ideally, I mean something like PP spends X% of their funding on abortions, Y% on birth control pills, Z% on educational materials etc… Thanks. Damn it **Cort** , we’re trying to masturbate here. Questioning the realism of the porn doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/31 "2011-04-12T20:22:01Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > We need a dictionary here, so people can understand what “hyperbole” and “nitpicking” mean. > > “Nitpicking” means > which doesn’t quite fit someone saying that almost everything an organization does is provide abortions, when only 3% of their effort goes to that. > > Yes, 90% _does_ seem like a lot more than 3%. Because it is. > > His point was clearly that a major portion of PP’s effort was directed toward abortions, not merely that they did some providing of effort. That’s a fairly substantial difference, and your effort to characterize it otherwise isn’t at all convincing. Now who’s nitpicking? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/32 "2011-04-12T20:23:17Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Damn it **Cort** , we’re trying to masturbate here. Questioning the realism of the porn doesn’t help. If you’re uncomfortable with facts and logical analysis here, perhaps [RedState.org](http://RedState.org) would be more to your satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/33 "2011-04-12T20:26:37Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Seems kind of like your nitpicking unnecessarily. 90% vs 3% seems like a large difference, but the point he was making was true, Plant Parenthood provides abortions. And you’re further nitpicking on what “abortion” means. Bullshit. If I claimed “The vast majority of women who claim to have been raped were lying”, even though the actual number was vanishingly small, would you accuse me of mere hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/34 "2011-04-12T20:27:40Z")
I remember a Tuesday a few months ago it was snowing so badly I got into work two hours late and then we decided to shut down early. If you looked at my productivity that day you could probably conclude: 90% was spent taking a dump. What happens if we can find one PP office that on one day spent 90% of its resources on abortion? Essentially one day when they had one client and all they did was perform an abortion. I bet if we work hard enough we can prove the initial statement true in the most limited possible fashion. That still counts as winning right? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/35 "2011-04-12T20:32:58Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Bullshit. If I claimed “The vast majority of women who claim to have been raped were lying”, even though the actual number was vanishingly small, would you accuse me of mere hyperbole? What if you claimed 125million people spend every penny on basic living. Then it turned out the number is 47million, and basic living means $22,000 a year. Perhaps we could conclude that hyperbole and partisan rhetoric sucks, and that you should back up your statements or just stop talking. The headline here isn’t, “Republican caught lying,” or even “Politician caught lying.” It’s “bullshit political rhetoric annoys opposing side.” ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/36 "2011-04-12T20:34:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If you’re uncomfortable with facts and logical analysis here, perhaps [RedState.org](http://RedState.org) would be more to your satisfaction. Ew, that fetish stuff creeps me out. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/37 "2011-04-12T20:35:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Hyperbole is not a Senator changing a 3% figure to 90%, and saying it as if it were a matter of accurate reporting. It’s not really 3%. I’ve pointed this out earlier. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > So there is no difference between a lie and a hyperbole? The difference is in what message it’s intended to convey and how it’s likely to be taken. If the underlying point is essentially the same regardless of the accuracy of the statement, then you have grounds for making a hyperbolic statement. If the underlying point depends on the accuracy, then you can’t. In this case, Kyl was making the point that PP spends a lot of their money on abortions, and that money is fungible. That’s a valid point. That said, I think it crossed the line, because I personally would assume he meant 90% or at least close to it. But I can see someone seeing things differently, so it’s very possible that he did mean it as a hyperbolic statement. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/38 "2011-04-12T20:39:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Right. If anyone who supported him cared that he was lying, he could not lie and then have his people respond “oh, it’s no big deal - he was just lying.” Okay, let’s be honest about something for a moment. The people who vote for him don’t give a shit that he lied about this, why? Because they are against abortion and he is against abortion, that’s all that matters. To them 3% and 90% are both of the set of numbers n\>0 The people who don’t vote for him (and I assume he runs unopposed) don’t care if he lies or not. They support abortion rights so they don’t care if the number is 3% or 90%, all they care about is that again n\>0 (in the sense this time that abortion is allowed to happen not that they want it to). If you want to pit something and be really really super angry, the mistake here is the fact that a senator spent time on the senate floor talking about abortion when they were supposed to be talking about a budget (where t[sub]abortion[/sub]\>0). And even in that pit thread I was take a dump then say, “why is any amount of campaign time spent talking about abortion?” You should be mad that this fucker is elected or one simple position that should have vanished into obscurity in 1974. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/39 "2011-04-12T20:47:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s not really 3%. I’ve pointed this out earlier. > > The difference is in what message it’s intended to convey and how it’s likely to be taken. > > If the underlying point is essentially the same regardless of the accuracy of the statement, then you have grounds for making a hyperbolic statement. If the underlying point depends on the accuracy, then you can’t. > > In this case, Kyl was making the point that PP spends a lot of their money on abortions, and that money is fungible. That’s a valid point. > > That said, I think it crossed the line, because I personally would assume he meant 90% or at least close to it. But I can see someone seeing things differently, so it’s very possible that he did mean it as a hyperbolic statement. When you claim that that a hyperbole was made, and his office says it was an untruth, is your claim a lie, or a hyperbole? And would you like a shovel? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/40 "2011-04-12T20:49:03Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > [Here is a pie chart of it.](http://thedailywh.at/2011/04/08/government-shutdown-explainer-of-the-day/) > > Sexually transmitted diseases and infections testing and treatment: 35% > Contraception: 35% > Cancer screening and prevention: 16% > Other women’s health services (LEEP, stuff like that): 10% > Abortion services: 3% > Other services: 1% Okay, I can spin this, how? Because I’m that good: Woman goes to PP for an abortion, in the process they notice she has has HPV so they tester her for cervical cancer, then provided contraception in the form of RU486. That’s pretty close to 90% And here you witness the beauty of the conservative position: there is no lie. If Rush had said this he’d spend the rest of the week pushing further until PP is included in voter fraud. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106.md?page=3)