# Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) lies and admits it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106 "2011-04-12T16:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/81 "2011-04-13T13:50:34Z")
Jon Kyl has picture of Justin Bieber tattooed above his ass crack. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/82 "2011-04-13T13:51:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The difference between “primarily” and “pretty much the only thing” was hyperbole. That’s not hyperbole, it’s just incorrect. It’s not until his office needed to excuse the fact that he said something that was flagrantly incorrect that we heard the statistic offered in support of his argument was “not intended to be a factual statement.” You’ve charitably interpreted this as hyperbole; most of the other posters have realized that since Kyl gave no hint he was using hyperbole, he got caught in a lie and tried to excuse it as a rhetorical device. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/83 "2011-04-13T13:55:47Z")
On [further](http://civilliberty.about.com/od/abortion/f/Average-Cost-of-an-Abortion.htm) [review](http://abortioncost.net/), it looks like $500 is a reasonable estimate of the cost of an abortion (assuming the vast majority of abortions are first trimester, as I do in fact assume). So I assume 15% is the correct number. **Marley** , I don’t see that you’ve added anything, and I too have nothing to add to my earlier comments. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/84 "2011-04-13T13:59:37Z")
That’s OK. The most charitable interpretation I could come up with was that your comments were a pathetic excuse for an obvious lie. Meanwhile I’ve been enjoying the derision Kyl has been justly receiving. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/85 "2011-04-13T14:20:40Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait. Wait. > You’re actually trying to make a case for the argument that “To his supporters, it doesn’t matter because anything goes for the win. To his detractrors, anything goes because fuck him anyway. Ergo, anything goes and nothing else matters (e.g. ethics, honesty, facts).” ? > > That’s pretty much the death of politics right there. Even though I have to admit, that’s where American politics seem to be headed these days. This whole thread is devoted to the idea that Kyl said X% when really it was Y%. But providing abortion is binary, either it’s zero, or non-zero. The very fact that PP performs abortions is all that matters. There aren’t people that are okay if it’s 12% but not if it’s 32%. Nobody was swayed by his speech because he used 90% instead of 3%. Because there weren’t a bunch of people on the fence thinking they’d like just a little less abortion. So in the end, voters either support the right to an abortion, or don’t. I can pretty confidently say that more than 90% of Kyl supporters are against the right to choose. To prove the point, look how quickly we latched on to the 3% figure that helped the pro-choice case. No question, just instant support. This thread wouldn’t have worked if the number was closer to 80%. Why are we still talking about abortion? Trillion dollar deficit and all we care about is making sure some slut suffers for 9 months. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/86 "2011-04-13T14:29:05Z")
Oh. Right. So you’re amending your positiong to “anything goes” to “anything goes when it’s a polarized enough topic”. We cool, bro. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/87 "2011-04-13T14:29:26Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Why are we still talking about abortion? Because in spite of the whole “The Republican Party: now with 90% more fiscal responsibility!” makeover, their real focus remains on the same old stuff: eliminating abortion, gutting programs for minorities and the poor, and giving tax breaks to the rich. Kyl’s lying deserves scorn on its own, but the fact that was lying in service of that agenda - and at a time when people have actually started paying attention to the debt/deficit issue - is part of the reason he’s earned so much contempt. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/88 "2011-04-13T14:46:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh. Right. So you’re amending your positiong to “anything goes” to “anything goes when it’s a polarized enough topic”. We cool, bro. No, I thought about it, and I’m back to “anything goes.” We make decisions, then seek to rationalize. Most of the participants in this thread already believed Kyl/Republicans are liars, this confirmed it for them. It was just one time, and he’s no doubt said at least something that was true, but they’re happy because this confirmed their pre-set bias. Even on the most simple of topics, “We’re going to build a sidewalk down your street.” Some neighbours for, some against, AND THEN they look to support their belief. If a councilman stood up in defiance of the proposal and said, “It will take 90% of your property,” it wouldn’t matter. Everyone for it assumes he’s lying because they know he’s against it. Everyone against it knows the number is \>0% and will do anything to stop it. There might be one guy in the audience that sits up and says, “Holy shit I didn’t know it was 90% of my property.” Which is the best part because after the damn thing is built the first group goes outside and says, “holy shit I didn’t realize it meant taking part of my lawn, I thought it was taking someone elses lawn.” The other group goes outside, says nothing, and happily walks up and down the sidewalk. People suck, not you, other people. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/89 "2011-04-13T14:49:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > According to [Media Matters](http://mediamatters.org/research/201102180003), it’s about 15%. That doesn’t speak to the accuracy of Kyl’s statement, but it also doesn’t speak to the accuracy of those who like to use 3% either. > > [FWIW, the number is an estimate based on the cost of an abortion being $500 - which seems rather low to me. I’m curious about this number. Unfortunately, my office network blocks the apparent source link.] Considering that Planned Parenthood itself is quoted as saying that 3% of donation-derived expenditures go for abortions, and that you are working from your own estimate here, I am more inclined to believe them over you. Though I appreciate your efforts toward trying to substantiate your point with actual figures. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/90 "2011-04-13T14:49:53Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > We make decisions, then seek to rationalize. Most of the participants in this thread already believed Kyl/Republicans are liars, this confirmed it for them. It was just one time, and he’s no doubt said at least something that was true, but they’re happy because this confirmed their pre-set bias. As this discussion goes on, your posts have less and less to do with what’s actually happening in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/91 "2011-04-13T14:50:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Because in spite of the whole “The Republican Party: now with 90% more fiscal responsibility!” makeover, their real focus remains on the same old stuff: eliminating abortion, gutting programs for minorities and the poor, and giving tax breaks to the rich. Kyl’s lying deserves scorn on its own, but the fact that was lying in service of that agenda - and at a time when people have actually started paying attention to the debt/deficit issue - is part of the reason he’s earned so much **contempt**. Wait a second, has he actually earned contempt? He was an anti-abortion Republican senator from Arizona. It’s not like he was one of those moderates that was trying to bring balance to the force. Liberals already had contempt for him before he even started talking, conservatives already loved him without knowing who he was. Now liberals are a little more angry, which no doubt makes Kyl a hero to conservatives. I find it hard to believe there was anyone on the fence about him, that is shocked and appalled by this. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/92 "2011-04-13T14:51:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As this discussion goes on, your posts have less and less to do with what’s actually happening in the thread. Which was? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/93 "2011-04-13T15:02:16Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Wait a second, has he actually earned contempt? Sure sounds like it to me. Kyl is not one of the best-known senators and he’s having more than a little derision heaped on him right now. > [@emacknight](#): > > Which was? For the most part, people were calling out Kyl on a lie. To a lesser extent they were rebutting some handwaving. As long as we’re on the subject, on page one I made the same point you did about Kyl’s supporters not caring that he was not telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/94 "2011-04-13T15:30:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > He was saying their primary function is abortions. The hyperbole was in jacking it up to “well over 90%”. 3% of their activities. 3% of donation-derived expenditures. Seems that even characterizing that as a “primary function” is hyperbole. I won’t hold that against Senator Kyl, though, as it looks like that characterization is a case of you putting words into his mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/95 "2011-04-13T18:44:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Jon Kyl has picture of Justin Bieber tattooed above his ass crack. Pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/96 "2011-04-13T18:56:46Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Considering that Planned Parenthood itself is quoted as saying that 3% of donation-derived expenditures go for abortions, and that you are working from your own estimate here, I am more inclined to believe them over you. Did you even bother to read the links before posting? What on earth are you talking about? You’ve said two falsehoods in one sentence. Stop complaining about Kyl. ETA: Forget reading the links. Did you even read the post that you commented on? Or do you think that I myself am Media Matters? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/97 "2011-04-13T18:59:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 3% of their activities. 3% of donation-derived expenditures. Seems that even characterizing that as a “primary function” is hyperbole. Read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/98 "2011-04-13T19:07:17Z")
I did. You want that characterization, you can try defending it. Or not. You’ve pretty much lost my interest. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/99 "2011-04-13T19:11:09Z")
Kyl makes an inacurate statement based on an incorrect assumption, and you’re up in arms. You guys repeatedly make false statements, with the evidence staring you in the face. And you’re complaining about him. Acid is groovy, kill the pigs. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-jon-kyl-r-az-lies-and-admits-it/578106/100 "2011-04-13T19:35:39Z")
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