# Sen. Kennedy on the Watch List **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720 "2004-08-20T14:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/21 "2004-08-20T17:04:54Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > Even after that, some airports still stopped him–because they were still using the old list. That’s the scary part. If they update the list, I want everyone in the system to know about it immediately. If the airports are not operating off a live, frequently updated database, then what’s the point of having the stupid thing at all? AFAIK there is no procedure for getting one’s name removed from the list if it’s there by mistake. Unless one happens to know Tom Ridge, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/22 "2004-08-20T17:18:04Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Ummm, has Ted Kennedy actually ever been convicted of a felony? No, he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of leaving the scene of an acccident. Just out of curiosity, would you have asked the same Q had this been an OJ Simpson thread? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/23 "2004-08-20T17:38:45Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Just out of curiosity, would you have asked the same Q had this been an OJ Simpson thread? What does that have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/24 "2004-08-20T17:42:42Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > What does that have to do with anything? The implication being that the only reason anyone has a problem with this is because they are blinded by partisan politics. That the democrats and liberals have no concern for the safety of our nations flight system or the efficiency of the systems designed to catch terrorist. Pretty fucking clever of him to figure that out, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/25 "2004-08-20T17:46:27Z")
I hope all the “stop picking on GWB” people will remember this thread the next time they bitch. Something that should outrage every American is dismissed because the Teddy-haters decided to latch onto it. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/26 "2004-08-20T18:15:29Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > No, he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of leaving the scene of an acccident. Just out of curiosity, would you have asked the same Q had this been an OJ Simpson thread? Honestly, I probably wouldn’t even have opened a thread with OJ Simpson in the title, as I would be quite happy never to read that man’s name again. I was literally in friggin’ Siberia the summer of his murder trial, and we _still_ couldn’t escape the media coverage. I am, however, much more likely to open a thread I know will deal with the no-fly list or other related civil liberties issues. I’ve expressed my reservations about the list previously: > **[More insanity from the Dept. of Homeland Security: where will it end?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=236952)** > > So who else has a problem with having airlines release passengers’ personal information and itineraries to the Dept. of Homeland Security (specifically, the Transportation Security Administration) so it can be cross-checked against unspecified... > **[Security screening/data sharing for airline passengers: does this disturb...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=210417)** > > Link: http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/09/pf/saving/travel/passenger\_screening/index.htm The most disturbing part: “8 percent of passengers will be coded “yellow” and will undergo additional screening at the checkpoint, while 1 to 2 percent will be... > **[ACLU filing class action lawsuit over “no fly” list](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=249435)** > > It was pretty inevitable: “ACLU to sue U.S. over ‘no-fly’ list that bars travelers” http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/06/no.fly.lawsuit.ap/index.html ACLU press release: Basically, the criteria for the list, which subjects some passengers to... And honestly, do you think leaving the scene of an accident, or even drunk driving, or perhaps even involuntary manslaughter, is a reason to keep someone off an airplane for the rest of his life as a security risk, as in “this guy might hijack the plane,” or “this guy might punch out a flight attendant”? Theoretically, that’s what the no-fly list is designed to do. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/27 "2004-08-20T18:17:17Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > The implication being that the only reason anyone has a problem with this is because they are blinded by partisan politics. That the democrats and liberals have no concern for the safety of our nations flight system or the efficiency of the systems designed to catch terrorist. Pretty fucking clever of him to figure that out, don’t you think? That’s not the way I follow the thread of point/counterpoint, **Binarydrone**. **JohnBckWLD** called Teddy an infamous felon; **Eva Luna** countered with a request for whether Teddy was a convicted felon; **JohnBckWLD** , evidently taking the position that the Chappaquiddick incident makes Teddy a felon, regardless of whether his criminal record reflects that as a matter of public record, asked if **Eva Luna** would raise this technicality had he called OJ Simpson an infamous felon, despit the fact that, on paper, he is an acquitted murder defendant. The above is my interpretation of the exchange, and subject to challenge/correction by **JohnBckWLD** is offered for the benefit of **World Eater**. This is not to say that **JohnBckWLD** ’s position and assertions are not partisan. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/28 "2004-08-20T18:22:14Z")
kaylasdad99, how is that even germane to the conversation except for the insinuation of partisan bias? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/29 "2004-08-20T18:23:01Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > And honestly, do you think leaving the scene of an accident, or even drunk driving, or perhaps even involuntary manslaughter, is a reason to keep someone off an airplane for the rest of his life as a security risk, as in “this guy might hijack the plane,” or “this guy might punch out a flight attendant”? Theoretically, that’s what the no-fly list is designed to do. Guess I should have previewed. No, he doesn’t honestly believe that (or if he does, it’s not likely the reason for his entry into the thread). He was merely taking an opportunity to slam Senator Kennedy as an evildoer (infamous felon) in favor of referring to him (as **Derleth** had) as a “famous politician.” ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/30 "2004-08-20T18:28:20Z")
Do I think Ted Kennedy has done some stupid and quite possibly evil things in the past, and/or that he has character flaws? Hell yes. Do I think any of the allegations made against him are a reason to prevent him from boarding an airplane? Hell no. Do I have big, big issues with the no-fly list in its current incarnation? Hell yes. Anytime someone is prevented from living his/her life in a normal manner, I want it to be based on actual intelligence and/or law enforcement work, and this ain’t it. ---
**Author:** ![dry\_gear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@dry\_gear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dry_gear)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/31 "2004-08-20T18:58:20Z")
I wonder what would happen if a terrorist chose “G. Bush” as an alias. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/32 "2004-08-20T19:01:57Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Do I think any of the allegations made against him are a reason to prevent him from boarding an airplane? Hell no. I don’t think anybody in this thread thinks that. People were just having some fun at Sen. Kennedy’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/33 "2004-08-20T19:09:04Z")
If anybody here honestly believes that **JohnBckWLD** has been advancing his truly-held belief (and his reasons for holding it) that Ted Kennedy belongs on the watch list, go ahead and argue the point with him. I believe, and am advancing my reasons for holding the belief, that he’s just indulging in partisan snark. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/34 "2004-08-20T19:09:18Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I don’t think anybody in this thread thinks that. People were just having some fun at Sen. Kennedy’s expense. Yeah, but would you say the same thing if it was about George W Bush? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/35 "2004-08-20T19:21:40Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Yeah, but would you say the same thing if it was about George W Bush? 😛 Actually, an argument could probably be made that GWB’s name **should** be on the list. At the moment, he’s got no business aboard any plane except Air Force One. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/36 "2004-08-20T19:38:29Z")
Thanks **K99**. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/37 "2004-08-20T19:56:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > …The above is my interpretation of the exchange, and subject to challenge/correction by **JohnBckWLD** is offered for the benefit of **World Eater**. This is not to say that **JohnBckWLD** ’s position and assertions are not partisan. **Thank you**. Your representation of my smary comments were right on the mark and clearer than anything the attorney I’m forced to keep on retainer could’ve stated. I plead guilty on the Kennedy bashing - but not really on partisan grounds. I prefer to define my distaste for limosine liberals as populism (as opposed to partisanship). > [@Eva Luna](#): > > I am, however, much more likely to open a thread I know will deal with the no-fly list or other related civil liberties issues. I’ve expressed my reservations about the list previously: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=236952](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=236952) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=210417](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=210417) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=249435](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=249435)… I read your three linked OP’s and see validity in your concerns. As someone who only flies about 1x a year internationally and 3-4x nationally, I’ve seen the delays and the stupidity first hand. I’m also forced to drive over bridges and through tunnels in the NYC metro are on a daily basis and I can assure you the roadway delays are even more frustrating. We don’t hear or read about all the box truck drivers who are pulled over and harassed whenever the terror alerts are raised because they don’t have press agents. I choose to direct more ire at the terrorists who created this mess than I do toward the TSA or the DHS. I usually don’t see eye to eye with gov’t agencies, but I’m sure you’d agree they’re pretty much in a lose-lose situation. If they’re not dilligent and something awful happens, wrongful death lawsuits would be filed and people would be screaming holy hell. If they’re too strict, civil rights suits get filed and people scream holy hell. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > …Do you think leaving the scene of an accident, or even drunk driving, or perhaps even involuntary manslaughter, is a reason to keep someone off an airplane for the rest of his life as a security risk… Of course not (unless that was the use of a rhetorical question to make your point). But in the interest of full disclosure, I did support Air Canada’s original policy that barred Rushdie from their airline during his 2001 book tour and felt his publisher should’ve chartered a private jet. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/38 "2004-08-20T20:13:41Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I hope all the “stop picking on GWB” people will remember this thread the next time they bitch. Something that should outrage every American is dismissed because the Teddy-haters decided to latch onto it. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/39 "2004-08-20T20:42:12Z")
Kennedy deigned to get on a commercial airliner with the great unwashed? I thought private airline seats were the only kind good enough for a Kennedy’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/40 "2004-08-20T20:57:18Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > I thought private airline seats were the only kind good enough for a Kennedy’s ass. [That was true in the late 90’s](http://www.s-t.com/daily/12-00/12-27-00/a03wn013.htm). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720.md?page=3)