# Sen. Kennedy on the Watch List **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720 "2004-08-20T14:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/41 "2004-08-21T01:04:30Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Do I think Ted Kennedy has done some stupid and quite possibly evil things in the past, and/or that he has character flaws? Hell yes. Do I think any of the allegations made against him are a reason to prevent him from boarding an airplane? Hell no. I agree, let Teddy fly. But I sure hope he is on the Do-Not-Drive list down at the Avis and Hertz counters, in the interest of public safety! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/42 "2004-08-21T01:30:49Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > I agree, let Teddy fly. But I sure hope he is on the Do-Not-Drive list down at the Avis and Hertz counters, in the interest of public safety! As long as you add [George W](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html) and [Laura](http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm) Bush to those lists. Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/43 "2004-08-21T01:57:56Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > As long as you add [George W](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html) and [Laura](http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm) Bush to those lists. > > Asshole. I’ll give you the George W DUI, but there’s nothing on Laura, as charges weren’t even filed, according to your own link. If you have evidence that she was under the influence, post it, or shut up. Stupid asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/44 "2004-08-21T02:32:23Z")
My first thought was the suicide watch list… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/45 "2004-08-21T02:47:11Z")
I don’t fuckin’ believe this. An internationally known Senator has to make _three_ fuckin’ phone calls to the head of Homeland Security before he can get permission to fly, and some of you waste your fuckin’ time making stale “Teddy” jokes? What the holy hell are you going to do if _your_ name pops up on the fuckin’ list? You sure as fuck ain’t gonna call the head of Homeland Security. Because of the name I was born with, I was strip-searched three ghod-damned times on my way back from Chicago last time I was there, and I haven’t gotten permission to fly since then. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/46 "2004-08-21T02:59:27Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > I’ll give you the George W DUI, but there’s nothing on Laura, as charges weren’t even filed, according to your own link. If you have evidence that she was under the influence, post it, or shut up. The point, dumbass, is that as long as you’re going to slag Kennedy for killing someone with a car, you really ought to be own up to the fact that your icon’s wife did too. Killing someone by running through an intersection, whether one is under the influence or not, is a tad careless wouldn’t you agree? Oh that’s right, of course you wouldn’t because it might mean you have to give up on flogging the Kennedy horse that you and so many other right wing fanatics have been beating for the last 30 years. To recap: Ted Kennedy killed someone while he was driving a car. Laura Bush killed someone while she was driving a car. Kennedy is evil in the fractured minds of the right wing attack squad. Laura is not. One more example of the moral relativism that seems to strike the moral absolutist right-wing freakshow whenever it hits a little too close to home. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/47 "2004-08-21T03:00:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t fuckin’ believe this. An internationally known Senator has to make _three_ fuckin’ phone calls to the head of Homeland Security before he can get permission to fly, and some of you waste your fuckin’ time making stale “Teddy” jokes? What the holy hell are you going to do if _your_ name pops up on the fuckin’ list? You sure as fuck ain’t gonna call the head of Homeland Security. Because of the name I was born with, I was strip-searched three ghod-damned times on my way back from Chicago last time I was there, and I haven’t gotten permission to fly since then. :mad: Why should they care? As long as they and their good Republican buddies are taken care of, they don’t give a shit about anyone else. As long as it happened to a Democrat they don’t like, they can yukk it up and not stop to think of the bigger picture. Disgusting. Fucks. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/48 "2004-08-21T03:03:18Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > After all, haven’t aeronautical engineers proven that Kennedy can’t possibly fly? He’s gotten pretty heavy, so I’m sure he can’t flap his arms fast enough to take off. Not only that, his voice doesn’t echo. _And no one knows why!_ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/49 "2004-08-21T03:08:26Z")
Otto, You forgot to mention that Clinton got a blowjob and that his wife has fat ankles. Seriously folks, when can we collectively set aside partisanship and admit that we are ruled by maniacs? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/50 "2004-08-21T04:34:37Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > The point, dumbass, is that as long as you’re going to slag Kennedy for killing someone with a car, you really ought to be own up to the fact that your icon’s wife did too. Killing someone by running through an intersection, whether one is under the influence or not, is a tad careless wouldn’t you agree? Oh that’s right, of course you wouldn’t because it might mean you have to give up on flogging the Kennedy horse that you and so many other right wing fanatics have been beating for the last 30 years. > > To recap: Ted Kennedy killed someone while he was driving a car. Laura Bush killed someone while she was driving a car. Kennedy is evil in the fractured minds of the right wing attack squad. Laura is not. > > One more example of the moral relativism that seems to strike the moral absolutist right-wing freakshow whenever it hits a little too close to home. Yeah, right, like there’s absolutely no difference between an inexperienced 17 yr old driver and a 30-something drunk driver. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/51 "2004-08-21T04:45:11Z")
I care little about Republicans and Democrats as I am not a citizen nor a resident of the US. I frequently travelled to the US (business and pleasure) pre-9/11 and haven’t done so after it. I have to admit that, perhaps a little irrationally, I am scared of visiting the US, and not for fear of terrorism but for fear of your own inmigration authorities. I recently travelled to Spain, after the train attacks, we had to make a stop in Puerto Rico. We all to get off the plain, clear inmigration (thankfully ours was the only plane been cleared at that time), stand in line for quite a long time, be fingerprinted, photographed, stand some more time with nothing to do or nowhere to go and then board the plane. We arrived to Madrid, and I was expecting the same kind of treatment and that things had changed since the previous year when we also travelled to Europe, after all now they had also been recently attacked. No, no problem whatsoever. In fact I had more check-ups to go through leaving my own country than arriving at any airport in Europe. I completely accept that as it is your country you should do as you see fit. Hell, close the border if you want, I won’t complain. But as it is I rather not travel to the US unless it is strictly necessary. I will have to go to Philadelphia in December, and for the first time in my life I don’t want to travel. I suddenly don’t feel quite welcomed in the US. And the sad thing is that most people around me feel the same way after having travelled to the US recently and that is why I probably am a little paranoid. Why is security more military-like in the US than it is in Europe? That is a real, honest question. Perhaps it will help clear my aprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/52 "2004-08-21T05:29:37Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Yeah, right, like there’s absolutely no difference between an inexperienced 17 yr old driver and a 30-something drunk driver. :rolleyes: Absolutely there’s a difference. One is the First Lady and the other’s the President. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/53 "2004-08-21T05:38:41Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Absolutely there’s a difference. One is the First Lady and the other’s the President. Gotta hand it to ya, **Otto** , you’re too clever by half. Kennedy killed someone by drunk driving, President Bush did not. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/54 "2004-08-21T05:39:20Z")
I suppose all of you are too young to remember that Teddy broke his back in an airplane crash once and that the pilot was killed. Also, he lost a brother in one airplane explosion and crash and a sister in another during WWII. He lost four of his siblings while they were in service to their country. And some of you have the gall to talk about “Kennedy asses.” When is the last time that you read a reliable news source about his being drunk? Ten years? Twelve years? How far back do you have to reach to find a scandal? The same holds true for Laura Bush. God forbid that anything like her car accident should happen to any of us. Ever accidently gone through a stop sign or an intersection? I wonder how many other people named _T. Kennedy, Edward Kennedy, Ed Kennedy, and Ted Kennedy_ have not been allowed to board flights in the US. Are they still banned? > [@](#): > > **JohnBckWLD** : Just out of curiosity, would you have asked the same Q had this been an OJ Simpson thread? Since I would have raised the same issue about whether or not Kennedy had been convicted of a felony, I choose to answer this question also. I would not have asked the same question about O.J. because no one is dumb enough to think that O.J. was convicted of a _criminal_ charge. Apparently there are some dumb enough to think that Kennedy was. Thirty-five years has a way of obscuring the truth for though. Where were you in August of 1969, **JohnBckWLD**? I was teaching. Do you remember the other events that happened within that same three week period? Man walked on the moon, Charles Manson’s “family” murdered several people, and Hendrix and Joplin were jumpin’ at Woodstock. Ted Kennedy was in his first term as the junior Senator from Massachusetts. Now only four Senators have served longer than Ted Kennedy in the history of our country. In this case, your reach into the past has outstretched your grasp. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/55 "2004-08-21T05:52:14Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I suppose all of you are too young to remember that Teddy broke his back in an airplane crash once and that the pilot was killed. Also, he lost a brother in one airplane explosion and crash and a sister in another during WWII. He lost four of his siblings while they were in service to their country. > > And some of you have the gall to talk about “Kennedy asses.” > > When is the last time that you read a reliable news source about his being drunk? Ten years? Twelve years? How far back do you have to reach to find a scandal? Not that far, actually. Ask the families of Mary Jo, Martha Moxley, and that unfortunate girl in West Palm Beach. Allegedly, Manslaughter, Murder, and Rape. Let’s not trip over ourselves feeling sorry for the poor, put-upon, Kennedy family, for heaven’s sake. They aren’t particularly nice people. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/56 "2004-08-21T06:06:19Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Gotta hand it to ya, **Otto** , you’re too clever by half. Kennedy killed someone by drunk driving, President Bush did not. Right. That’s what I said. George W. Bush didn’t kill anyone with a car. Laura Bush did. And what, Dubya’s failure to kill someone makes his drunk driving more acceptable? So if Kopechne had lived you’d stuff a sock in your damn fool mouth? > [@milroyj](#): > > Ask the families of Mary Jo, 1969 > [@milroyj](#): > > Martha Moxley, 1975 > [@milroyj](#): > > and that unfortunate girl in West Palm Beach. 1991 so still outside the 12 years mentioned by **Zoe** on this one. And of course neither Michael Skakel nor William Smith are, to the best of my knowledge, an elected official or otherwise a public citizen absent the former’s conviction and the latter’s _acquital_ on rape charges. And in other news, Kennedy has [company](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/20/lewis.watchlist/index.html) on the watchlist. > [@](#): > > A second prominent lawmaker said Friday that he’s been subjected to extra security at airports because his name appears on a list designed to prevent terrorists from boarding planes. > > Rep. John Lewis, D - Georgia, a nine-term congressman famous for his civil rights work with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., has been stopped 35 to 40 times over the past year, his office said. And as far as I know, he didn’t even kill anyone with a car. He did have close ties to that notorious terrorist, Martin Luther King Jr, though. So now that it’s an elected official other than Ted Kennedy, will milroyj yank the partisan stick out of his ass long enough to condemn this outrage? Or will there have to be a Republican lawmaker stopped a dozen times before he can manage it? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/57 "2004-08-21T06:09:44Z")
**Mighty Girl** , I was surprised that I was not even interviewed by a customs official when I landed at the Paris airport. In the United States we are not accustomed to being under enemy attack. The idea that someone would fly large airplanes into the WTC and the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania – and destroy all of those people in front of our eyes was unthinkable. Our feelings of being vulnerable happened very suddenly. At the same time we realized that people hated us and would do anything to destroy us. And sense then, that hatred seems to have spread. In a country of 300 million people, it is easier for terrorists to hide – especially when they look just like ordinary, pleasant neighbors. So many of us have become afraid of Muslims especially. But we can’t just single out Muslims, so we make it hard on everybody. Meanwhile, there are people who genuinely try to make our country safer. And there are those who exploit our fear. And there are those who pretend they’ve made it safe when some areas areas are not safe at all. And it’s hard to tell who is for real and who is not. We have politicians right here in my own state that think that the people in the new Iraq government are the same people that arranged to destroy the WTC! If you ask them where the hijackers were from, they will tell you that they were from Iraq! People are confused and afraid here. They have been lied to and mislead and attacked and criticized. But that is mostly just when they are talking about the government. Much of our daily lives is like it was before 9/11 happened. Don’t be afraid of coming here – especially if you will be with a friend. But do wear very comfortable shoes for the Philadelphia airport. I had to do a lot of walking there. If you will be patient with us, generally we are friendly. Lots of people get fingerprinted here. It is not meant as an insult. (I was fingerprinted when I became a teacher.) There are even locks that you can buy for your suitcase that are “TSA” locks. That means that the security people have keys to them, but no one else (except you) can get into them. Other locks will be cut off. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/58 "2004-08-21T06:12:23Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Let’s not trip over ourselves feeling sorry for the poor, put-upon, Kennedy family, for heaven’s sake. They aren’t particularly nice people. I for one would be fascinated to see how well you respond in the face of the horrifying personal and public tragedies faced by the Kennedy family. Given that you act like a complete asshole without AFAIK having lost two brothers to an assassin’s bullet, I figure you wouldn’t handle it by giving another 30+ years of your life to public service. I take it you include the governor of California amongst the not particularly nice Kennedys? Or is he OK because he’s a Republican? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/59 "2004-08-21T06:23:56Z")
**Otto** So you’re saying that the Kennedy crimes happend a long time ago, so they’re OK? Or that they’ve had tragedy like assinations, so that makes it OK? I disagree. The whole bunch seems to be fucked up in one way or another, but you want to give them a pass. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/60 "2004-08-21T06:25:59Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > generally we are friendly. Oh, no question about it! I have always enjoyed my visits. I would also expect that you extend us the courtesy of not judging us in our country by the assholes that we have working at all airports and the stupid things that they do, which probably make your own procedures look like child-play. My concern is with the policies and the fact that things are made more difficult that they ought to be in my opinion. Maybe at some point we will find an acceptable middle. After all some other countries are not strangers to terrorism and seem to be getting along just fine. Thanks for the tip about the shoes. :o) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720.md?page=4)