# Sen. Kennedy on the Watch List **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720 "2004-08-20T14:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/141 "2004-08-22T07:35:09Z")
Asked of **milroyj** yesterday: > [@Otto](#): > > Is stopping a Congressman 40 times in a year because his name is similar to an alias allegedly used by a terrorist a good thing? Yes or no? Still waiting for an answer… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/142 "2004-08-22T10:32:18Z")
> [@El Cid Viscoso](#): > > Fuck that faux guilt-trip, man. Broomstick’s the one who crossed the line. > > It owes you an apology. I’m sorry **milroyj** is such a contemptible example of humanity and US citizenry. Yes, I find is shameful the way **milroyg** belittles and attempts to silence anyone who disagrees with his viewpoint. Lincoln would be _appalled_ at where some parts of the Republican party have gone these days. Those abroad do have legitimate concerns about who is sitting in the White House because the decisions coming from Washington, D.C. _do_ affect them. I don’t think “agree with me or I’ll kill or imprison you for life without trial” is a proper way in which to run either a government or foreign relations. Being an American does not make me inherently superior to anyone else. Being a fanatical Republican rightwing nutjob does not make **milroyj** inherently superior to anyone, either. Shouting others down just proves he has no factual basis for his views, or the weaponry to engage in a true contest of wits. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/143 "2004-08-22T10:39:27Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > I’m really not as bad as you think I am, I’m a person, too. What’s up with all the hate? :dubious: Because you have hurt others Because you have treated others with contempt and disrespect merely for being born in a different country. Because you have made assumptions about people based solely on the fact they don’t agree with you, without considering _why_ they disagree with you, or even being willing to entertain the idea that there views might have some merit. Because you seem incapable of agreeing to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/144 "2004-08-22T11:22:56Z")
Someone asked, why vote for Kerry if he voted for the Patriot act. My answer is that I reckon that he voted out of political expedience, which is a rather ordinary thing that politicians do. By contrast, the Bush administration conceived it and sold it as a necessary measure for fighting terrorism. Does this mean that Kerry was gullible on account of being duped by the Republicans? Possibly, but so was nearly the whole Senate, which has yet to admit to its own culpability in the WMD mess which, if it had exercised its responsibilities for intelligence oversight, might have been defrocked much earlier. So were 80% of Americans, who jumped on the war bandwagon and fell for the canard that greater security meant greater freedom. It is unfortunate to be the victim of a con man, but it is ethically reprehensible to be the Con Man in Chief. Bush’s entire concentration is upon increasing the power and scope of government. Kerry is pretty much just another bumbling politician whose ambitions have been pacified by his marriage to Teresa. Better to have Elmer Fudd as president than Simon Legree. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/145 "2004-08-22T14:24:40Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Better to have Elmer Fudd as president than Simon Legree. So now, within less than 12 hours, I’ve seen both Bush and Kerry dismissed as [Elmer Fudd](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5190014) on these boards. That’s politics for ya. Be vewwy, vewwy quiet! I’m wunning a campaign for pwesident! Huh huh huh huh huh! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/146 "2004-08-23T02:42:02Z")
Now don’t be hatin’ Elmer Fudd. He had more style than either candidate. Hmmm Elmer for Pres, and Sam for VP. Damn I enjoy watching a good old fashioned flame war 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/147 "2004-08-23T02:44:00Z")
Oopsie, I almost forgot to say, I sleep a lot better at night knowing the Patriot Guys are checking all those library books and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/148 "2004-08-23T03:13:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because you have hurt others If my posts on this message board have hurt others, then I am truly sorry. That was never my intent, ever. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/149 "2004-08-23T03:39:08Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > If you are an American citizen, vote for whomever you like, as is your right. On the other hand, foreigners should just STFU about who we vote for. American elections do affect people in the UK - at least while we have a PM who faithfully follows your president into war regardless of the wishes of the people. We do have a right to an opinion about American politics. Also, I haven’t noticed any Americans here being at all shy about commenting about European politics - and no-one tells them to STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/150 "2004-08-23T04:05:05Z")
Anyone care to comment on the actual topic of this thread? Not Ted Kennedy’s politics or mistakes. Not the upcoming election. Not the rights of foreigners to comment on American politics. Is anybody concerned about the fact that a very famous political leader had to make three ghod-damned phone calls to the head of Homeland security before he could get his name taken off the list? What the holy hell would it take for some of you to admit that the system, as it now exists, is fucking _broken_? As it now stands, if I want to visit relatives anywhere in the eastern half of the U.S. I have to take a minimum of a week off, and anything out of the country is totally out of the question. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/151 "2004-08-23T04:31:50Z")
There’s a reported terrorist with your name on the list, too, Czarcasm? Sure, the system is broken, locking and guarding the upstairs windows after the thief has already run out the open front door. But the thread topic is Kennedy. His name was put on the list, I’d bet, simply as a stupid prank. Most of us wouldn’t have that problem, especially those of us with non-Arab names. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/152 "2004-08-23T04:41:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Sure, the system is broken, locking and guarding the upstairs windows after the thief has already run out the open front door. But the thread topic is Kennedy. His name was put on the list, I’d bet, simply as a stupid prank. If Kennedy’s name _was_ put on the list, it sure as hell wasn’t a stupid prank. It was a politically motivated violation of the senator’s right to travel freely. From what I’ve heard, the name on the list was merely _similar_ to Kennedy’s, in which case the problem was low to medium level shmucks harrasing a prominent politician because they didn’t like him. It’s simply in-credible that **none** of these security people knew what Sen. Kennedy looked like. That leaves us with a federally mandated safety program that engages in partisan harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/153 "2004-08-23T04:46:48Z")
The trouble is, Ted Kennedy’s name [w]wasn’t\* on the list. All they had was the first initial “T” and the last name of Kennedy. I just find it incredible that: 1. It never occured to The Powers That Be that this was an extremely crappy way to find terrorists, 2. It never occured to anyone that it might come in handy to have in place a procedure to take names _off_ this list, and 3. Not one ghod-damned person involved in the bannings thought that anything was wrong when a national Senator was refused access. Kennedy is the topic only in that even _he_ had one hell of a time getting the problem fixed, meaning that _we_ don’t have any chance whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/154 "2004-08-23T05:06:42Z")
And the initial for Edward is “E.”, anyway. **squink** , the name on the list was “T. Kennedy”. I’ve also flown way more than enough to have any confidence in the world-awareness of the average airport security agent. But I don’t disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/155 "2004-08-23T16:03:10Z")
I think that a lot of the problem has to do with the very character of the average American citizen. It seems to me that at some level we (collectively) want these conspicuous flashy displays of security because it looks as if someone is actually doing something. We want to be forced to take off our shoes and have our paperclips taken away because we are afraid and want the comfort of seeing that, gosh darn it, someone is doing something about the problem. The problem, as I see it, is that the real solutions are not flashy (it is hard to get excited about thicker doors). Further, these flashy measures are diverting attention and recourses from measures that might actually save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/156 "2004-08-24T00:34:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Kennedy is the topic only in that even _he_ had one hell of a time getting the problem fixed, meaning that _we_ don’t have any chance whatsoever. Kenndy _isn’t_ off the list according to this report: [Kennedy has company on TSA list](http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_35a/briefs/187986-1.html) Yes, there IS something seriously wrong when even a member of Congress (and a Kennedy, to boot!) doesn’t have the pull to get off a list like that. Kennedy and Lewis only got their “security check” letters because they ARE in Congress - anyone is fucked up the ass sideways if their name even _resembles_ one on the watch list. There is no appeal. None. Clearly, the attitude is that those who names bear a chance resemblance to someone’s alias should just put up with the hassle of being banned from the nation’s airspace. Sit down, shut up, be a good little serf. There is just so much bullshit involved in national “security” is hard to know where to start shoveling. Today I read that the 9/11 report said that _all 19_ of the 9/11 hijackers had signed a statement prior to entering the US that they were NOT entering for purposes of perpetrating terrorism. OH MY FUCKING GOD!!! THE BAD GUYS LIED!!! Too many “security” procedures are based on the bad guys obeying the rules… and they _don’t_ obey the rules, except when convenient for their own purposes. What a load of horseshit. Meanwhile, we pour billions into useless measures, while neglecting the real threats around us. We harass and inconvenience law-abiding citizens and do nothing truly effective to stop the Bad Guys. All the while, the jackasses in positions of power surrond themselves with guards and fences, hoping the enemy will be satisfied picking off the peasents but leave their precious flesh and blood alone. Devil take the hindmost and all that. I am disgusted. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/157 "2004-08-24T02:46:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Today I read that the 9/11 report said that _all 19_ of the 9/11 hijackers had signed a statement prior to entering the US that they were NOT entering for purposes of perpetrating terrorism. This and other amusing questions are on the standard visa application. For your reading pleasure and general amusement, I present you the DS-156, Application for Nonimmigrant Visa: [http://evisaforms.state.gov/DS156\_English.pdf](http://evisaforms.state.gov/DS156_English.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/158 "2004-08-24T08:09:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Most of us wouldn’t have that problem, especially those of us with non-Arab names. And this is scary. Think about it: A terrorist could give himself a shroud of security by taking a non-Arab name, even if he looks Arab to a moderately trained eye. After all, while Mohammed may raise eyebrows, Emilio or Rosenstern would not. To most Americans, a dark-skinned guy could be any number of ethnicities, and could come from Mexico City as easily as Mecca. I’m accusing anyone of being racist, merely pointing out one more reason why racial profiling is a rather stupid practice. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/159 "2004-08-24T09:44:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Most of us wouldn’t have that problem, especially those of us with non-Arab names. :dubious: Yeah. “Kennedy” is SUCH a typical Arab name! “Lewis” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2004, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720/160 "2004-08-24T10:26:41Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > This and other amusing questions are on the standard visa application. For your reading pleasure and general amusement, I present you the DS-156, Application for Nonimmigrant Visa: > > [http://evisaforms.state.gov/DS156\_English.pdf](http://evisaforms.state.gov/DS156_English.pdf) > [@](#): > > Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State? Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide? YES NO > > While a YES answer does not automatically signify ineligibility for a visa, if you answered YES you may be required to personally appear before a consular officer. I’d love to listen in on one of those personal appearances. I wonder how many people who answered “YES” are let through by the consular officers? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sen-kennedy-on-the-watch-list/260720.md?page=9)